Metis Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 ...I think that makes it official. Classes are useless. So maybe the trick is not to start with high attributes but with high skills and +CoS% to Social rolls (read: Befriend)? EDIT: Okay, so here's background plan A: 01. Astrology: Noon02. Heritage: Strozzan 03. Omen: Shattered Mirrors04. Family: Sports05. History: Locally Notable 06. Station: Merchant07. Prodigy: Center of Attention08. Prodigy: Social 09. Prodigy: Spiritual 10. Tutoring: Grifter 11. Familiar Bond: Platypus F1. Friendships: Actually, Bitter Hatred Platypus because of the adventure it starts on Juvenalia, which I use to get +1 Luck, +2 Familiar Kinship, +1 Flawless Timing, +1 Willpower for myself, and +1 Luck, +2 Bond of Iron, +2 Bond of Silver, +1 Bond of Stars for the Familiar. That brings the total to: -Attributes- Fitness : 2 Finesse : 1 Charm : 2 Strength : 1 Intelligence: 2 Insight : 2 Luck : 2 --- -Set Skill Increases- +2 Accounting +1 Art Appreciation +1 Awareness +1 Character Study +3 Conversation +2 Debate +2 Diplomacy +1 Ethics +2 Familiar Kinship +1 Flawless Timing +1 Flirting +3 Leadership +2 Manipulation +1 Negotiate +5 Observation +1 Oratory +1 Patience +2 Perception +4 Persuasion +2 Reason +1 Temperance +2 Willpower +2 Wits --- -Random Skill Increase- +1 to 2 random Athletics +1 to 2 random Rimbal --- -Stress/Vitality maximums- Stress : 2/4 Vitality: 2/4 --- -Chance of Success- +7% CoS at Social Actions +1% CoS at Everything --- -Finances- +50 Pims -5 PA --- -Relations- -5 to random Morvidus Student --- -Items- 2 random Common items --- For both the +1 to two random Athletics/Rimbal subskills you don't want them to hand out +2 to one skill. That way you can Use The Athletics Field to get Athletics 1 and...something to get Rimbal 1. Be sure to get Running as one of the Athletics subskills, because it's easily the most called on. Rimbal 1 is important because it opens up the Rimbal random events, BTW. For the -5 to a random Morvidus, well, restart if it's Joana or Philippe. Otherwise, don't worry too much about it. The two random Common items are really beyond manipulation, since there's a lot of common items, but try to make sure they're not perishable. You're not likely to visit a shop early on, so yeah. Oh, and BTW, unless you're enrolled in Zoology than during the Laughing Bees stage of the tutorial fail the Insects investigation check. That informs you of the Insects subskill at no penalty, which at level 3 gives Student of the Drones (Ability). That, in turn, gives you a permanent +1 Command, Logistics and Planning. The former two are subskills of War, and along with Leadership that gives you enough subskills to increase the War parent skill. War 2 gives +1 Insight and +1 War but, eh, . Planning 2 gives +1 Insight and Intelligence. That investigation check is always there. Use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legate of Mineta Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 That...is glorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svinik Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Mother-loving couch potato of Cheeseland! And I thought my attributes being all at 8-10 was good... And is that SEVENTEEN THOUSAND PIMS!? Yes, this was the game that sort-of went boom! This time I didn't take black sheep, and annoyingly forgot to take apprenticeship:spy, so that will have generated some pims, but otherwise it all came from REs and adventures. I was torn between selling the book of deep [redacted], the gloves of raven [redacted] and a few other items that might be misinterpreted by professors to try to break 20k, but I figured they might have a Yr 2 effect. Almost everything came from adventures, I did a few dozen but I'm not sure exactly how many. Oddly I didn't cast a single spell outside of adventures and REs - not even cleanse and remake or 6th finger, although I did cheese my astrology and enchant exams. I cliqued up Zoe Melis and Vincent Eins, but the garden gallery let me get Zoe, Zoe got me through a few adventures to get my first ability points and it snowballed from there. The difference between mantele / longshade / sphinx and class was staggering even at only afternoons and the exam months, add in a munchkin class choice, using adventures that generated attribute points efficiently, plenty of REs thanks to Vincent and an early vanishing dorm key, and not much bullying and the above resulted. About the only thing I did wrong was to take the background that makes a number of students start with relationship -2 as that meant I wasted several actions to get access to some adventures, I'm wondering if I left completing the main adventure too late so lost out on just going about your business, but it wasn't long after midterms and they are tough to complete before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Perfect attendance better be worth it. Legate, even if Y2's reward for perfect attendance is minor, will that record continue to stack? ie. will the Y3 reward be better if Y1 and Y2 were perfect?, and continuing on to like Y5 where they give you legal permission to use Mastery or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isadorbg Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Perfect attendance better be worth it. Legate, even if Y2's reward for perfect attendance is minor, will that record continue to stack? ie. will the Y3 reward be better if Y1 and Y2 were perfect?, and continuing on to like Y5 where they give you legal permission to use Mastery or something? Ha ! Now if one had the ethics to be present in every class for five full years despite potential hazard. I'd say he can be trust with Mastery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 O.M.(F.)G. Well,.. this certainly puts my characters to shame - stat and money wise at least. *murrr* ... well,... where did I put my munchkin hat with the pretty stars on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Ha ! Now if one had the ethics to be present in every class for five full years despite potential hazard. I'd say he can be trust with Mastery I'd say if someone goes to every class for five years they're undoubtedly the victim of Mastery. Speaking of, I'm wondering what the best set of classes are. You can manipulate which classes are assigned to the morning and afternoon slots, since that's randomly determined at the start of the game. Background choices: 01. Astrology: Noon +2 Observation, +2 Perception, +2 Reason 02. Heritage: Strozzan +1 Willpower, +2 Debate, +3 Observation 03. Omen: Shattered Mirrors +1% Chance of Success, +1 Intelligence, +2 Leadership, +1 Oratory 04. Family: Sports +1 Fitness, +1 to two Random Rimbal Skills, +1 to two Random Athletics Skills 05. History: Locally Notable +50 Pims, 2 random common items, +1 Temperance, +1 Patience, +1 Conversation 06. Station: Merchant +2 Wits, +2 Accounting, +2 Persuasion. Allowance of 20 Pims per two weeks 07. Prodigy: Center of Attention +1 Charm, +1 Leadership, +1 Flirting 08. Prodigy: Social +2% Chance of Success on any Social Action, +1 Manipulation, +1 Conversation, +1 Diplomacy, +1 Persuasion 09. Prodigy: Spiritual +1 Insight, +1 Awareness, +1 Ethics, +1 Art Appreciation 10. Tutoring: Grifter +1 Character Study, +1 Persuasion, +1 Manipulation, +1 Conversation, +1 Negotiate, +1 Diplomacy, +5% CoS Social Actions, -25 Pims Allowance 11. Familiar Bond: Platypus +1 Luck, +2 Familiar Kinship, +1 Flawless Timing, +1 Willpower for myself +1 Luck, +2 Bond of Iron, +2 Bond of Silver, +1 Bond of Stars for the Familiar F1. Friendships: Actually, Bitter Hatred Add 2 stress, -5 Relationship with a Random Student from Morvidus Note that the Platypus can hand out other steps, but I'll take Flawless Timing/Willpower/Bond of Silver over Curiosity/Character/Familiar Kinship/Bond of Silver/Bond of Stars. Because you need Flawless Timing to defeat the puma in the Tower of Cold Forge. Funnily enough Electrical Awareness (Ability) hands out a point of Danger sense, which you need to dodge the puma before you can defeat it. -Attributes- Fitness : 2 Finesse : 1 Charm : 2 Strength : 1 Intelligence: 2 Insight : 2 Luck : 2 --- -Set Skill Increases- +2 Accounting +1 Art Appreciation +1 Awareness +1 Character Study +3 Conversation +2 Debate +2 Diplomacy +1 Ethics +2 Familiar Kinship +1 Flawless Timing +1 Flirting +3 Leadership +2 Manipulation +1 Negotiate +5 Observation +1 Oratory +1 Patience +2 Perception +4 Persuasion +2 Reason +1 Temperance +2 Willpower +2 Wits --- -Random Skill Increase- +1 to 2 random Athletics +1 to 2 random Rimbal --- -Stress/Vitality maximums- Stress : 2/4 Vitality: 2/4 --- -Chance of Success- +7% CoS at Social Actions +1% CoS at Everything --- -Finances- +50 Pims -5 PA --- -Relations- -5 to random Morvidus Student --- -Items- 2 random Common items --- -College- ? --- -Class Load- ? --- Which college and which classes? Astrology is an easy pick because of Watching the Ships at the Docks, but beyond that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svinik Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 The worst class is incantation, because once you have theory of incantation and 900 pims of the training school and its frequency in REs and Adventures - I used 6-7 actions and maxed out the whole skillset which is very cheap. Negation also routinely comes up in REs and Adventures so the class is less useful. If you want to train up forge skills anyway, the Library of Mantele reduces the value of revision class. So I see class as good for skills that you want to train up, but which don't have good training abilities otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 You don't even need to spend money for a nice Incantation training because if you have Durand de Thiomines in your clique he trains you 3 random incantation SS now and then (Critically Examine Incantation Spells). If you don't want to reroll a lot to explore the glamour class room I think Glamour is a nice skill for class as it also gives Insight at Study Mastery. But I prefer Dialectic class by now instead of Glamour because you also get Insight at Study Mastery and more important its less hassle to train it for the new Sphinx ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svinik Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Does Durand's ability cost you an action, or does he just do it to you? Also: What skills do you go for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 I think it's something he never thinks to actually do to you. Skills? Well, I'm not sure. What I have above is definitely the start of a social mage build with Character Study, Diplomacy, Manipulation and Persuasion. I chose those in part because that's what you need to go through Oan's adventure. It's still missing Climb/Scouting/Incantation, though I'm not sure where to get those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 It cost you 1 timeslot so its not as good as the School. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legate of Mineta Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Free; Yes, I would imagine so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Free; Yes, I would imagine so. Mmm. I am SO going to misinterpret that as a formal admission that Mastery will be allowed in Y5 for perfect attendees. (Eat your heart out, Schwarzbart! ) Folks, If you're serious about incantation, the Academagia class is the best in the long term. Why? Because of the bonuses of study, which are unobtainable otherwise. Personally, money is too much of a concern for me to waste for the contu school, and I don't like spending time making friends. (the only one I do is Strolin, and that's because she raises the relation to 10 for me and it gives me extra money! I've tried to get Vuillaume for methods boost to several pillars, and Ana for the theory, but in the end it takes too much time away from my adventuring so I ust stick with Emilia S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Yeah, personally I do like enrolling in Incantation just so I don't have to worry about finding Theory of Incantation somewhere along with 900 Pims and spending a turn paying tuition while hoping the CoD at Contu's doesn't decide to slap me because I technically don't have visitation rights to the Contu school while I'm inside paying tuition. Yes, that happened to me once. Yes, one day people are going to be putting up signs of "go this way and/or this way this and that. Thataway is for employees only" even if I have to Master the entire city council or whoever to get it done. A Day in Incantation sadly doesn't hand out an attribute (I am slightly mystified as to my own stinginess with that adventure), and that above character with 1 Finesse...yeah. Classes don't work miracles, as Svinik has undeniably proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svinik Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I confess that the 900 pims cost is something that I see more as a speed bump than a roadblock, its a pain not getting it until 3-4 months in (or whenever you first go shopping) but to me the real problem with it is getting theory of incantation - for which the Disaster is the cure if I can clique her and if not with any luck Longshade or the Shinx has given me ToI by that stage anyway. I find Oan's adventure doesn't need much preparation as it has relatively gentle checks once you have observation at a reasonable level, much like Pamela's adventure until the last stage. The same is not ture for Beatrix, unless something went wrong with young master Vaughan her adventure has insane DC's - I did it almost at the end of Kaliri and yet it was blue all over without a single green check - by that point I would expect Vaughan to be able to handle a student adventure with at least one green option at every phase given his stats. Incidentally, back to the Disaster, Ana and Aaran - best possible study buddies or the nightmare team to avoid at all costs in practical lessons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 At the latest you first go shopping 24 days after the Dance of Fools to sell off the 350 Pims worth of Caramel Chews and whatever else you got, so around Gelamenus 24. As for the Disaster, well, I happen to not like making cross-college cliques since that's going to cause trouble down the road. Also, relying on Befriend for anything is a very, very ill-advised idea. I've had people forming cliques on Juvenalia. There's no way to get who you want every single game. I find preparation to be essential because so early you don't have the attributes to just go through without skills. Charm/Diplomacy v. 3 doesn't sound hard, but when you start with Charm 1 and Diplomacy 2 that's a 33% roll unless you prep. And Oan's adventure is the second easiest adventure in the game, too. If you can't do it, where are you going to get the attributes/skills to do anything else? To get a green roll your skill has to at least equal the DC, since otherwise you could theoretically roll a 0 on the attribute and fail even if that requires rolling a 0 on a 1d44. Her adventure's DCs, BTW, are 6-22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svinik Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 For me it depends on what I've got from RE's and adventures, I don't want to waste actions shopping (2 or 3 times a game is all I do) so I want to sell the accumulated junk and buy out Garibaldi's on my first go - caramel chews meh. I get Zoe every game, she saves me 25+ study actions and gives me major skill bumps and as an adventure-phile she smashes opening DC's in many adventures so she's a shoo-in. Whether the clique survives Yr 2 is a separate matter, she's too valuable not to gromph in Yr 1. Vincent Eins (+1 Luck and +3% chance of a RE) is less of an issue and unless I'm begging for Ana I don't chase any others. I'd note though that I'd see getting your first clique-mate as a priority, barely behind getting your first library - as you note cliques can start forming quickly so Oan'ing to get the garden gallery and getting a few points in befriend is well worth th einitial investment to me. I find preparation to be essential because so early you don't have the attributes to just go through without skills. Charm/Diplomacy v. 3 doesn't sound hard, but when you start with Charm 1 and Diplomacy 2 that's a 33% roll unless you prep. And Oan's adventure is the second easiest adventure in the game, too. If you can't do it, where are you going to get the attributes/skills to do anything else? To get a green roll your skill has to at least equal the DC, since otherwise you could theoretically roll a 0 on the attribute and fail even if that requires rolling a 0 on a 1d44. Her adventure's DCs, BTW, are 6-22. I would never do a game with an attribute at 1, never. The opening atributes are vital to raising skills quickly and getting over those first horrible adventure hurdles, and while +2 to 2-3 skills may sound nice, in practice +1 to an attribute is +1 to a dozen skills or more, the background skill-ups are more valuable for their unlock potential than their actual boost in my view. Hmm, someday I will figure out DC's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 My RE luck tends to be very swing or miss. Either the game casually tosses Hant's Bracelet in my face after giving me the Amulet of Bloody Tears or it gives me the random encounter where you need Grammar to escape a random pit. There is no middle ground. Also, one of the reasons I to take a trip to Garibaldi's shop early is to pick up Astrologer's Eye. +3% random event chance is handy since I get neither the Vanishing Dorm Room Key or Vincent, so that +3% is all I get. With the Caramel Chews from the Dance of Fools I only need another 190 Pims to buy it. That trip generally also has me with enough money to also buy a Doppleganger Band, which is highly appreciated to ixnay the odd Chance of Detection nonsense. I never befriend Zoe, for one because of the college thing (haven't played Hedi yet) and for another because I like maxing Research. Manipulating the random skill though is...painful. I also don't find it useful to train Befriend - just reload until you get it because Train is a waste and Mantle of Stars doesn't open until Library Knowledge 6. You'll note that the start above has 1 Finesse and 1 Strength. Now Strength I've never really needed so I always use that as a dumpstat, but if you know a good way to sneak a point of Finesse in that start be my guess. You can download the modtools here...if you can find a set of links that still work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 Shopping is so...meh. I'm too cheap to actually buy anything. (Plus with crafting in Y1 being what it is I don't jump head over heels for stuff) I wind up with a bunch of stuff I could sell, but I figured that'd be better held off until we see what Y2 brings. I'll sell stuff if I need to, but I have this feeling that my room will be cluttered with lots of stuff in Y5. I actually run into the problem that most of the libraries' usefulness becomes moot due to overuse. I suppose I could always use the sphinx but I've never liked it due to the chance of failure that you have unless wit is at like 15 or so.. I don't really pay much attention to REs. One of my problems with them is that I tend to always go with the exit(s) that are green, even though sometimes other exits might be more preferable.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I do like buying stuff, but finding out where to buy what stuff, not so much. Garibaldi's is great, though, since it's unavoidable and hey, if I pay 40 Pims or whatever just to get access to it I'll use it. That is has two items which reduce CoD along with the ever popular Pendant of Persuasion is also a good argument, not to mention the Astrologer's Eye. Match Wits in DLC 16 is actually v. 13, but with the hidden failure chance you can still fail even with Wits 13. Apparently Extensively Consult has an even bigger hidden failure chance, but I never used that ability so I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svinik Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I'd expect to get a RE at least every other day on the second half (and aim for 2 in 3), and 2-3 a week beforehand, so they even out for me - and by midgame they are virtually all positive. I check what exit skill can use a bump and go with that as the outcome so find them very profitable. I'm curious though, why not get the Vanishing Dorm Key? The adventure may cost you a rest action but even so it's well worth it unless you plan on doing something with a high risk of a reprimand. Befriend 4 is 12 actions, it gets me 2-3 clique-mates, who in turn give me Zoe's awesome clique ability (saves > a dozen actions on its own), access to their skills in adventures (seriously, check out Zoe, her skills are very strong) and other benefits. I'm clearly missing something though, how does befriending Zoe stop you maxing research? Are you using the Venalicium? You'd be much better of with Zoe and Longshade, +1 study and +1 random research doesn't come close to +2 study and +2 ss & +1 ss to chosen skill and +1 ss to random skill and +1 ss concentration - even before you consider the overlap issues from the Venalicium being random and the ability to use selective focus to get Decipher Handwriting at half price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 The Vanishing Dorm Key gives +1 Gates Methods, which I don't want, and I don't always have both girls at relationship 0. Yes, but that'd be 12 actions on Train I could have spend in the Mantle of Stars, which (since I have a mod) is worth 24 +1 steps of random Astrology skills to me. BTW, do you happen to know the awesomeness of Sparkling Fields (Spell)? Or Fire Spread? They are awesome. My main issue was my ignorance of the +2 SS to skill of choice that Zoe also hands out. Besides that, well, cross-college cliques. Don't want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I agree with Metis that I try to do only 1 College cliques to prevent that it becomes to much work to keep the clique together in the next years. Sure sometimes its better to do 2 College cliques but I never pick a student who's College is a rival to one of my existing clique members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svinik Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 I generally use the library of longshade to get the befriend skills - I train to get the Mantle of Stars and use that to get longshade next. I lose a few actions due to SS to get longshade but it pays off quickly. I generally don't use spells, and in the early game I rest relatively often limiting the value of Sparkling fields, whereas in the late game when resting is unnecessary sparkling fields wouldn't be worth the casting action (although it's a cute spell). I've never had a cross-college clique problem, I heard it could cause trouble in Yr 2 but ... that's a Yr 2 problem, I suspect I will face worse, and if not school friendships often shift over the years, Zoe pays off significantly in Yr 1, Vincent probably does as well. I generally leave my clique small, diminishing returns set in early and people clique-up so I get Zoe, maybe Vincent and then perhaps one more - although sometimes I get extra's from people randomly joining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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