Why Libertad(Galicia) is in the game

[Dmnt]

I'm not really sure if there is any actual topic where it'd be adequate to dump all this, so I figured I might as well just start one, and let the staff take action if I shouldn't have.

Here, I wish to express my reasoning as to why Libertad, even lacking official confirmation, definitely is in the game as a Belle.

 

To give some quick context, in few words, on the Spanish Civil War, as you might assume, there were two sides: the "Nationalist" side, and the "Republican" side.

The Nationalists started the war in an attempt to establish a new government, as they had the opinion that the Republic's government was leaning too much on the left side.

The Republicans, well, were trying to prevent that, so, aiming to keep the current Republic.(I guess the name kinda gives that off)

I'm no historian, so I apologize if this isn't very detailed or has any inaccuracy.

 

Back on the main topic, while Libertad was taken by the Nationalist side at the base of Ferrol just at the beginning of the war, she switched sides at the first opportunity, becoming the flagship of the Republican fleet, and staying so for the rest of the war. This will come back later.

Now, I think it's reasonable to assume that there are more Spanish Belles than just the two we have seen interviewed. If we have some number of Spanish Belles, as we should, there'd necessarily be Belles from both sides of the Civil War(the two confirmed so far were both on the Nationalist side). Otherwise, aside from making no damn sense at all, would denote a completely shameful and regrettable bias from the development team.

So, if so far we can agree we'll definitely have Belles that were on the Republican fleet during the Civil War, I think it's not far-fetched to assert that Libertad, being its flagship for the entirety of the war, would be first in line, as its most representative and active ship.

 

Finally, I'd like to give a comparison.

Imagine for a moment that Nagato hadn't been confirmed nor interviewed yet. I don't think many people would even doubt her being in the game, just by virtue of the IJN being in it. Because it'd make no god damn sense to have the IJN, and not have Nagato, right?

I'd say it's the same for the Armada Española and Libertad.

 

And from here, it's up to everyone else to express how they agree or disagree with my ideas, and especially why.

[DrYuriMom]

I think it's worth a vote to find out. I am committed this week but next week my dance card is quite open. :-)

[Ninjapacman]

I would be fine with it, but I wouldn't call it bias if they only had ships from the nationalist side.  It may be a little unfair, but consider how few ships Spain will get in the beginning.  You have to remember they can put only so many ships into the game.  The big three nations will have about 90 ships out of ~150.  (That's the US, Japan, And Britain.).   When you consider that there are 4 other major nations, assuming each gets 10 ships, that's 20 ships remaining for the Netherlands, Spain, Turkey, and Poland.  With 5 ships each, especially since the nationalist ships had a more prominent war record due to the support of their allies severely hindering the Republican Navy, It's likely that the republicans will have less ships, if any.  Therefore, with only a couple they can choose, Libertad may not be prioritized.  The destroyer Lepanto for example had a brilliant victory and was used as a propaganda ship.  So while I love your enthusiasm, and would be glad to assist you, I cannot agree with you about the certainty of Libertad's appearance in game.

[Legate of Mineta]

This is a great read, but I must add two comments to the discussion:

First, the Belles available for interview are those hidden in the Kickstarter campaign. Of course, you never know what may happen, but that is the source of the interviewable Belles.

Secondly, the minor nations, of which Spain is included, had only one ship each revealed. The reason why there are two for Spain is because one of the very high tier Backers selected Velasco as their choice for their Belle.

That said, I certainly have enjoyed this thread and the enthusiasm!

[Ninjapacman]

What Legate seems to be saying is that even if Libertad is in game, she was not listed in the kickstarter set, so she can't be interviewed.

[Shin Kazama]

30 minutes ago, Ninjapacman said:

What Legate seems to be saying is that even if Libertad is in game, she was not listed in the kickstarter set, so she can't be interviewed.

So in other words... Does that mean that not all the Belles in the game are going to have interviews?

[DrYuriMom]

Pac, you tread dangerously when you act as Legate's spokesman.  He's quite capable of speaking for himself.

Speaking for himself, Legate said, "Of course, you never know what may happen..."  It could be worth a try.  What could possibly go wrong?

 

EDIT: Shin, that appears to be correct based on what has previously been stated.  That said, for some reason possibly related to their insanity the writers reportedly LIKE doing the interviews.  So maybe we'll get more!

[Ninjapacman]

It's been mentioned several times in the questions threads, multiple voting threads, and multiple interview threads that the interviews are likely to cease once the Beta comes out, and that doesn't give us even close to enough time to interview all the girls in '39, much less the hundreds more that will come out as the game progresses.

[DrYuriMom]

Pac, I could be wrong but I believe it was said that we'll get interviews through to go live, when we'll finally get an interview with our lovely and ever-patient hostess.

[Ninjapacman]

I'll have to check when he said the interviews would stop, whether it's the live release or the beta release, but either way, the point is that they are not infinite.

[DrYuriMom]

Unless the writers want to keep them going, something with a non-zero chance of happening.  Maybe they won't happen every week.  Maybe their format might change,  But never say never.  Our interview with Avarice proves that hope is not always in vain!

We are all that stand between civilization and darkness.  If we Captains lose hope, who will tend the embers?  In these dark days of September, we must keep the flicker of hope alive!

[Dmnt]

I must say, Legate's post made me think of something...

What if Libertad(as Galicia) was originally planned to be one of the Spanish Belles when starting the campaign, but Velasco took her place when she was added later?

Gods, I'd be so mad if that was the case...

I don't know if this is something you can tell us, but, did the backer-chosen Belles have separate slots for them, or will they actually be replacing another one on their respective fleets?

[Schwarzbart]

@Dmnt the Legate said "the minor nations, of which Spain is included, had only one ship each revealed" so there was always only 1 Belle from Spain planed for interviews and a high tier backer added 1 more ... that still say nothing about what is planed to be in the game it self.

[Legate of Mineta]

Dmnt;

The Backer created Belles were additive, they didn't replace anyone.

[Käpt'n Korky]

So, there was only one ship of each minor nation regularily "meant" to be revealed. Then a high-tier Backer revealed another one. And ingame they very likely will have more than two Belles each.

So... let's keep DYMs inspiring words in mind and keep the flicker of hope alive. To do it the first step might be done by voting U-29, which is a much safer "semi-revealed*" call than the Galicia. Glancing over this weeks post gives me hope U-29 will be voted and thus happen if possible. If it happens we should just all push our luck and vote for Galicia. Because to cite the most honorable Legate: "Of course, you never know what may happen."

Fellow Captains: Let's. Get. Dangerous!

*no art yet

[David J]

As  Nautilus's backer I can back Legate's claim  that none of the ships got replaced they were just added in.  

[Panay's Ghost]

17 hours ago, Dmnt said:

To give some quick context, in few words, on the Spanish Civil War, as you might assume, there were two sides: the "Nationalist" side, and the "Republican" side.

The Nationalists started the war in an attempt to establish a new government, as they had the opinion that the Republic's government was leaning too much on the left side.

The Republicans, well, were trying to prevent that, so, aiming to keep the current Republic.(I guess the name kinda gives that off)

I'm no historian, so I apologize if this isn't very detailed or has any inaccuracy.

Back on the main topic, while Libertad was taken by the Nationalist side at the base of Ferrol just at the beginning of the war, she switched sides at the first opportunity, becoming the flagship of the Republican fleet, and staying so for the rest of the war. This will come back later.

So, she switched sides more than once and Canarias has neither forgiven her nor forgotten it?

Fear not, Dmnt, Galicia definitely has a Belle then.  Forget the Morganas, it would be for self-preservation against the ex-Nationalists in the Fleet.

[Dmnt]

8 hours ago, Panay's Ghost said:

So, she switched sides more than once and Canarias has neither forgiven her nor forgotten it?

Fear not, Dmnt, Galicia definitely has a Belle then.  Forget the Morganas, it would be for self-preservation against the ex-Nationalists in the Fleet.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say, but she only switched sides once; from the Nationalist to the Republican.

The sole reason she ever was in the Nationalist is that they seized her along with the base she was stationed at.

[Panay's Ghost]

She started out as a Republican ship--> liberated by the Nationals is still a switch of sides.

Then Nationalist--> Republican flagship -->Surrendered to the Francoists?  

From where I'm sitting, she's a yo-yo!

[Dmnt]

I'd think being taken by force would hardly count as "switching sides"...

[Käpt'n Korky]

4 hours ago, Dmnt said:

I'd think being taken by force would hardly count as "switching sides"...

Well since Galicia wasn't self-scuttled, she's at least a Belle who seemingly doesn't care THAT much about which side she's on. Maybe she's very unpolitical and just happy to serve and float above water and firing her canons and stuff.

[Dmnt]

That's not how it is at all.

Her loyalty was always to the Republic. But the base of Ferrol was taken at the very beginning of the war. Heck, I don't even know if the people in the base even had news of the war starting yet, and I don't know if self-scuttling can even be done within a base's port(?)

After leaving the base, headed for Cádiz, she realized something was wrong, her heart(crew) was still with the Republic, while her head(command) was telling her to just follow the orders. She decided she wanted to fight for what she believed was right, so she went to join the Republican fleet. The other ships in that group; Battleship Jaime I and Libertad's own younger sister Miguel de Cervantes also felt the same way. That was good, as by preventing potentially fatal infighting.

 

After the war ended, won by the Nationalists, she had to surrender because... well, what other option do you have?

Even after a commandment you're not too fond of, you might still be of some good for your country and it's people. She wouldn't be the first Belle we meet that feels this way.

[Panay's Ghost]

7 hours ago, Dmnt said:

That's not how it is at all.

Her loyalty was always to the Republic. But the base of Ferrol was taken at the very beginning of the war. Heck, I don't even know if the people in the base even had news of the war starting yet, and I don't know if self-scuttling can even be done within a base's port(?)

After leaving the base, headed for Cádiz, she realized something was wrong, her heart(crew) was still with the Republic, while her head(command) was telling her to just follow the orders. She decided she wanted to fight for what she believed was right, so she went to join the Republican fleet. The other ships in that group; Battleship Jaime I and Libertad's own younger sister Miguel de Cervantes also felt the same way. That was good, as by preventing potentially fatal infighting.

 

After the war ended, won by the Nationalists, she had to surrender because... well, what other option do you have?

Even after a commandment you're not too fond of, you might still be of some good for your country and it's people. She wouldn't be the first Belle we meet that feels this way.

OK, question:  it sounds like there were ships still in construction at Ferrol when the Nationalists arrived.  Was she launched/commissioned by the Republicans or the Nationals?  If by the Republicans, I could see a little more reason for her loyalty.  Otherwise...

Either way, it's quite true that may be how she sees how her history played out - siding with the 'established' government instead of 'rebels' only until the outcome was clear.  But it's not necessarily how other Spanish Belles do.

...And no, she didn't have to surrender. See Admiral Graf Spee...and Dunkerque...and Stewart...etc., etc.

[Dmnt]

27 minutes ago, Panay's Ghost said:

OK, question:  it sounds like there were ships still in construction at Ferrol when the Nationalists arrived.  Was she launched/commissioned by the Republicans or the Nationals?  If by the Republicans, I could see a little more reason for her loyalty.  Otherwise...

 

She had been in service long before the war started.
In fact, she was commissioned before the Republic started, so the answer to your question would be... neither?

[Panay's Ghost]

45 minutes ago, Dmnt said:

She had been in service long before the war started.
In fact, she was commissioned before the Republic started, so the answer to your question would be... neither?

Even better.  That status of unforgiven may be mutual  (Spanish Civil War pt 2, anyone?). 

Like I said before, she is definitely a Belle.  No question.