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Adrian

A few in game questions

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The singular biggest tease in that respect in the team itself. They added Slip the Master's Mark (Ability), but no ways to increase the Sync skill maximums without modding (that I'm aware of). Rest assured that that particular aspect of the Master's Mark was most definitely not intended, at least in-universe, or if not that at least by me. I don't know if the ability still exists in Y2, but if it does I'll have to avoid bringing up the PC's Mark too often because if Nhordum or Leene find out the PC's is broken they're going to want to fix it.

 

And about your interpretation of the Y2 follow-up to A Walk Along the Lake, well, funny you should mention that ;).

 

Also a note to the team (maybe): The Master's Mark wouldn't have to chance the PC's personality. Leene could just do that during an Embrace since the PC can't hope to compete with Leene's Insight/Sync rolls, so s/he wouldn't even notice it either. She wouldn't have to do so actively, either, since Embraces have...shall we say, side-effects. Especially repeated Embraces over a short period of time, which thankfully the PC wasn't subjected to. You'll see those more clearly in Y2, hopefully.

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Well i have noticed tha tpeople tend to dismiss all the bad forbidden magic can have. I have already see this in other settings like blood magic for dragon age or necromancy/black magic for others. No matter how many times you show them how evil those magic can be they twill quikly forget it for the little good they possibly have. Its the rule of cool when its forbidden its better I guess.

 

The only effective way to fight against this attitude is creating real harsh penalty in the game for knowing/using those.

 

That what i find cool in those magics: their are dangerous and danger is funny :)

 

edit:

And about your interpretation of the Y2 follow-up to A Walk Along the Lake, well, funny you should mention that ;)

.

I hope i didn't gave you ideas :P:P

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Well I have noticed that people tend to dismiss all the bad forbidden magic can have.

I've personally seen more of the exact opposite - people gorging themselves on the potential evil a (semi-)legal school of magic has.

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well there are those of course but mines ( :P ) are more numerous especially when its forbidden.

 

Its like the vampire debate: their are those who like the vampire for what it is, the dilemna with their lost humanity, the curse of the sun and the need of human blood and of course the superpowers because hey if we are screwed we can at least get nice things.

 

and their are those who believe vampire can be reedemed that they can just suck the blood of animals and that a cure can be found for their "albinism".

Of course they should keep their immortality and superpowers, whats cool about being human and having a soul?

 

pff whats funny if their is no curse if there is no challenge? (of course i am talking about real vampires fan here).

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I'm of the third class of people, those who fully acknowledge the dark side of those magics but don't care because they do see personal uses for having the knowledge that don't conflict with their moral code. It's perhaps a fusion between the two others. ;)

In terms of Gates, if it were legal, despite my stance on learning all pillars, I would love to be a master of that magic. (less in the monster creation, and more in space-time manipulation) And with Mastery, I am more interested in telepathy than outright puppetry. But if possible I'd learn it all just because.

The way I see it, Misuse of those magics should probably be dealt with as it currently is. Still, I don't think merely knowing them should count as misuse. Otherwise you ought to ban anatomy as Murders could be done more efficiently with it. And money needs to be banned too, because you can spend it on anything, including murders! Oh, and ban eggs because they have cholesterol. and maybe even ban mirrors because they bring bad luck if you break one!

 

Puh-lease. I'll continue doing my own thing, thank-you-very-much.

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The issue with Mastery is that, mechanically, you have to learn how to force people to do your bidding/fall into a coma/hand over their possessions before you can even begin to learn how to edit memories. Anatomy doesn't require you to stab random civilians before you can learn where blood vessels are.

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That depends on how you learn anatomy, and also, Just because you learn the darker part of mastery first you are not necessarily doing that to random civilians in order to learn it.

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Yeah, after a minute I looked at that anatomy analogy and went "...wait, really?". As for Mastery, practice it on random people or not, you can still do it. And as long as you can do it, you're going to lose patience with someone and hurt them eventually. Especially people that assume you're eventually going to lose patience with someone and hurt them, ironically enough.

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Well, That's why I can't argue with a potential death penalty for misuse. That would be an excellent discouragement for losing your patience.

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True on the death penalty thing.

 

As for merely knowing about it being punishable, though, I think the issue with that is in part due to the story not accounting for the fact that gameplay mechanics makes getting knowledge of illegal magic very, very easy. I mean, I once managed to get Mastery Phemes 1 in the first week of gameplay by using freaking Joie de Vivre (Action). To say nothing of the fact I sometimes have to save-scum the Sphinx not because of hidden BS failure chances, but because she happily decides to just teach me a point of Gates Methods just 'cause. Even worse is if that happens in the Library of Longshade. It's like my PC had a death wish.

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I have a silly question. Master's mark, the tattoo from Cirillo's adventure, my students have picked up quite a few tattoos - is there a register anywhere of how many tattoos there are and where on the body they are? I suspect that Yr 2 could get interested if the magical tattoos start overlaying too much!

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Funny thing is that the tattoo from Cirillo's adventure is mechanically a memory, which cannot be looked at ingame, whereas the Master's Mark is mechanically an ability, which can be seen ingame. To clarify the Master's Mark is on a person's wrist (I forget which arm), Cirillo's tattoo goes on your arm (upper or lower, I can't find it if it says).

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I personal think when tattoo magic will be actual implemented in one of the next years you get something like equipment slots for them to limit the number of tattoo's you can have. That means if you already got 2 tattoo they will use up the said slots.

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Say, Legate, I ask this as I think it's worth considering....

 

Since DLC 17 is set to be the last one for Y1, do you think it would be possible to give out the last version of the modbase a bit before then?

 

I know you might consider it spoilers for the last couple of adventures the team will add, but at least then we could look over the data for any errors and report those for fixes before the DLC comes out and support ceases. I did find quite a few errors with the current modtools but since its old now and uncorrected I'm having trouble looking at entries and not being 100% sure the error wasn't fixed already. (plus there are plenty of entries the currently released modbase doesn't have)

 

Just a thought.

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I'm of the third class of people, those who fully acknowledge the dark side of those magics but don't care because they do see personal uses for having the knowledge that don't conflict with their moral code. It's perhaps a fusion between the two others. ;)

Uhm are you sure? you seem to fit better in the first class. The second class (where i am) likes the dark magics because they are evil and i have never saw you make such statement. Plus in this very post you tend to favor the good side of those magic instead of the darker side which fits dismissing the bad for the good and believe those magic can be redeemed even tough I should admit that you don't take the extreme stance that I saw in other forum for other similar magic where people seem to deny all the possible bad.

But thats a statement that fits all the forumers in here. I really like the maturity and civility of the forumers in this forum which is why I started to post. :)

 

But anyway you made some interesting comment so let me share my view :)

 

 

 

The way I see it, Misuse of those magics should probably be dealt with as it currently is. Still, I don't think merely knowing them should count as misuse. Otherwise you ought to ban anatomy as Murders could be done more efficiently with it. And money needs to be banned too, because you can spend it on anything, including murders! Oh, and ban eggs because they have cholesterol. and maybe even ban mirrors because they bring bad luck if you break one!

Puh-lease. I'll continue doing my own thing, thank-you-very-much.

 

1) Okay so first the problem of knowledge is a crime:

 

First I'll give you a close enough real life exemple to illustrate my point: guns.

Yeah guns, now i know in the US its legal to posses guns (2nd amendment and all that...) but for pretty much the rest of the world its illegal and being caught in possession of a gun can cost you quite a few years in jail.

Now i don't remember how much but I think that in France its something between 5-10 years in jail. Thats quite a lot for merely holding a gun ! you didn't shoot anyone its just the possesion that got you a decade !

But there is a thing in justice called the intent. See you knew that having a guns is illegal in this country and despite it you still went to go and buy/steal whatevs a gun fully knowing that its a crime ! So you'll have a hard time to convince the court or anyone that you had no vile intent buying a gun or convince them that it was for self-defence or something.

 

Now we get back to Academagia: well the same thing can be said, ok despite the random skill problem in year 1, learning forbidden magics is something thats intentional and cannot be accidental even with the few skill point you get with some random ability (having some point will only get you a reprimand). No to learn those already forbidden magics you have to trangress quite a few rule, things like infiltrating the forbidden section of the library, discovering some highly suspisous books either talking or hunted by undead mages while not refering to anyone or even matching wits with the sphinx which is forbidden if I remember right even with imperial reserve right (tough maybe not after the adventure?). So you knew for the beginning that learning those are illegal that you risk death penalty for it and despite all of this you still knowingly transgressed many rules just to learn them. Now how will you defend yourself ? you knew it was illegal yet you still insisted to learned them ? how can you convince them you meant no harm while you knew what you did was a death sentence ?

 

Maybe the death sentence is a bit too harsh but then remember that Academagia world is not really a democratic utopia despite it amazing open mindness for the period and using the gun exemple we can remove it from you but we can't take you knowledge so its like carrying a gun (which is illegal) but we can not take it back from you thus death penalty or life imprisonement. Harsh yes but logical.

 

2) Now for the misuse part:

 

Well I will be honest for me using Gate magic no matter how is a misuse due to the random factor. And using Mastery is very very close.

 

See there is that debate in the US about legislation on the guns because crazy (and mean) people use them to kill and thats where my analogy fails because while crazy people can do a lot of damage with Mastery, Gates and even other pillar. The problem is that even normal not mean intentionned people can do a lot of damage with those two.

 

Take the loyal pact i gave for Mastery a few post earlier, now there is no ill intent with it. Its purpose is just to protect the master of any possible betrayal of his future apprentice and I think is a fair trade in exchange for the knowledge of the Master. However i think all of us can see how easily something so "trivial" can go out of control. the pact can in the beginning be just to prevent the apprentice to say anything to other people but it can quikly become the apprentice has to obey its Master because some apprentice found other way to betray their Masters (like killing them :rolleyes: ) and then maybe the Master comes into conflict with another one or is found by the justice, maybe its time to sacrifice the paw... the apprentice?

 

See thats just a fairly simple exemple on how Mastery can become abusive even if there is no evil intent. It just get so many power in the hand of one person that not abusing is quite frankly counter productive for the Master.

 

Now for Gates, well the magics is already very dangerous without the chaos factor. Summoning monsters can also go out of control and you never know what they will bring with them (mortal disease that kill thousands? already happened) but then if you add the chaos factor its just over kill :rolleyes: . I mean really casting a spell with Gates is just asking for it to blow in your face :rolleyes: .

 

3) And now my last "finish him" move :P .

 

As you have noted if you read my earlier post. I have some experience with forbidden magic in other settings and one of the best argument of the "legalist" is that those magics need a expert to show their "nasty" side and that a neophyte is not that dangerous.

 

But thats not the case for either Mastery or Gates !!

 

- Gates can be as catastrophic in the hand of a young mage casting the most basic spell than in the hand of the Lord of Darkness thanks to the chaos factor !

- A year 1 Mastery mages can already enslave its fellow student and i guess other people ! i really don't want to know what a Master is capable of !

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Now just because I don't publically state that I would use such power for evil purposes does not necessarily mean that I would never, ever use it to Master someone. Nor does it imply that I would find it absolutely horrifying...

 

I just keep that part of myself in check, and besides, it's not good PR.

 

Edit, and the chaos factor is an iiiity biiiity concern. a valid one, but it's not like you get a 50% chance of chaos or anything.

 

Edit Edit:I really think we're going to see a lot of the same in Mastery. you'll just be able to do it longer, affecting more people, and exerting more control. In Y1 you largely only influence certain actions and future years will either refine that basic ability or teach you some other skill like telepathy or whatever.

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Now just because I don't publically state that I would use such power for evil purposes does not necessarily mean that I would never, ever use it to Master someone. Nor does it imply that I would find it absolutely horrifying...

 

I just keep that part of myself in check, and besides, it's not good PR.

 

When you have been tempted by the dark side its already too late young one. Now joins us ! world domination and dragon orgy awaits !!

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When you have been tempted by the dark side its already too late young one. Now joins us ! world domination and dragon orgy awaits !!

NEVER!!

 

You guys killed Kenny! My father! somebody!

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You know, this just now occurred to me:

 

1. What will a Y2 study of Mastery allow the PC to do with the skill?

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And since we're asking questions with [redacted] answers,

2. What will a Y2 study of Gates allow the PC to do with the skill?

3. What about the other pillars?

 

 

and on a more serious note, I understand that you can't unveil the Y2 classes but can you at least say how many there will be and perhaps how many classes have which grading system?

 

Also, If I can guess which member of the team you are, Legate, will you tell us about questions #1 & 2?

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NEVER!!

 

You guys killed Kenny! My father! somebody!

 

 

 

but the dragon orgy ? :(

 

Also this:

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

4) Can you share with us whats roughly left working for a release ?

 

5) Any cool thing you can share about year 2 except what is asked in 1-2-3 ? :)

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