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Mikka

Picking Apart Students

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I've been picking apart students and how they work, and come up with a few questions about, well, how they work.

 

* Goals, Interests, and Personal. From what I understand, on the Student tab, the student chooses which table they use (along with Studies). But what is the exact difference between them, especially Interests and Personal? Sometimes there's overlap- Zoe wants merit, expanding memorization, studying, expanding familar skills and expanding bond in both tables, but she has interest in plot and most school subjects while through the personal table wants to expand bluff, compete, and deceit. What makes something Personal versus an Interest?

 

* It seems they roll a 1d100 to choose what they do on interests, studies, and personal. How do they figure out their goals? Roll a 1d5 and take any action listed by the goal?

 

* On that same motion... the students generally use the AI skills, but they can use other actions and abilities if they can access them, right? If Prudence wants to raise her Satyric Revelry, she'll get her Satyr on, but if she explores and finds the darker areas of the library, she'll might choose to skulk there instead, right? Or Katja wanting mammals and choosing to hang around the stables rather then just use the AI skill. How does the NPC decide which action/ability is better?

 

* Gift Preferences: are they used for anything? Like, what item a character would pick up if they shop (not that I've ever seen them shop...)?

 

* The characters with two clique names... do they roll between them? I ask because I've never seen anything but the Bessa Mob.

 

* Magsa: his parental approval is 0, and he apparently starts with 999 funds (...that's who I need to steal from in bully playthroughs, I see). Is he unable to raise parental approval like a black sheep? Does starting with 0 set that up? Or can he raise it if he ups his temperance or writes letters?

 

* Deception, Prosecution, and Courage are all listed on the right side of the student panel. What exactly does each mean and do within the game? I would guess courage has to do with chance of using forbidden locations, but that doesn't make full sense...

 

* Skipping over to the personality panel, there's Prosecution Chance, Blackmail Chance, Reinforcement Bonus, and Emotion Bonus. What do they each mean?

 

* Same with Erraticity and Confidence. What do they do?

 

(* What does the Dominant Attribute mean? Just a note for people poking around that it's generally the characters highest, or does it have some mechanical use? ...Huh, Luti's is charm. Funky.)

 

* Personality Preferences are just interesting all around. I hate to just ask 'What does it mean and do?', because, well, that's not very specific... but what does it mean and do? Luti, as I'm looking at him, has Expand Charm (6) and Expand Fitness (-3). What does that magnitude value mean? When are personality preferences put in to play? Does that mean he doesn't want to expand his fitness and athletics, or that his interest is lower compared to his desire to gain Charm and Art Appreciation? Or the other way around?

 

 

I'd appreciate any answers that can be given by anyone whose made sense of it. Thanks. :)

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Mikka;

 

Sounds fun! Here are some answers:

 

* Goals, Interests, and Personal. From what I understand, on the Student tab, the student chooses which table they use (along with Studies). But what is the exact difference between them, especially Interests and Personal? Sometimes there's overlap- Zoe wants merit, expanding memorization, studying, expanding familar skills and expanding bond in both tables, but she has interest in plot and most school subjects while through the personal table wants to expand bluff, compete, and deceit. What makes something Personal versus an Interest?

 

Personal represents things that the Character wants to do despite the fact that they don't necessarily like it, or because they feel it's necessary to do, or because they are being driven to do it. Interests are their interests. :)

 

* It seems they roll a 1d100 to choose what they do on interests, studies, and personal. How do they figure out their goals? Roll a 1d5 and take any action listed by the goal?

 

They will try to complete Goals one by one, in the order in which they appear.

 

* On that same motion... the students generally use the AI skills, but they can use other actions and abilities if they can access them, right? If Prudence wants to raise her Satyric Revelry, she'll get her Satyr on, but if she explores and finds the darker areas of the library, she'll might choose to skulk there instead, right? Or Katja wanting mammals and choosing to hang around the stables rather then just use the AI skill. How does the NPC decide which action/ability is better?

 

They will use anything that they have, in general. This has some pretty deep and mechanical constraints, though, and some problems which may lead to odd results.

 

* Gift Preferences: are they used for anything? Like, what item a character would pick up if they shop (not that I've ever seen them shop...)?

 

These are unused, and were a late cut.

 

* The characters with two clique names... do they roll between them? I ask because I've never seen anything but the Bessa Mob.

 

That's a bug; it is indeed supposed to be random if they form a Clique.

 

* Magsa: his parental approval is 0, and he apparently starts with 999 funds (...that's who I need to steal from in bully playthroughs, I see). Is he unable to raise parental approval like a black sheep? Does starting with 0 set that up? Or can he raise it if he ups his temperance or writes letters?

 

Correct.

 

* Deception, Prosecution, and Courage are all listed on the right side of the student panel. What exactly does each mean and do within the game? I would guess courage has to do with chance of using forbidden locations, but that doesn't make full sense...

 

All of them figure into how and what kind of actions an AI will take. Deception increases the chance that they will do sneaky things, when available. Prosecution helps determine how often they will respond to a Hostile Action, and Courage helps determine at what odds an AI will abandon its course of action. It has some other minor effects, too.

 

* Skipping over to the personality panel, there's Prosecution Chance, Blackmail Chance, Reinforcement Bonus, and Emotion Bonus. What do they each mean?

 

None of these are used in Year 1.

 

* Same with Erraticity and Confidence. What do they do?

 

Erratic AIs tend to abandon their plans and just do whatever. Confidence determines, as with Courage, when an AI will abandon something.

 

(* What does the Dominant Attribute mean? Just a note for people poking around that it's generally the characters highest, or does it have some mechanical use? ...Huh, Luti's is charm. Funky.)

 

Unused in Year 1...mostly. This is the Attribute that the AI likes, and will try to raise, if it can.

 

* Personality Preferences are just interesting all around. I hate to just ask 'What does it mean and do?', because, well, that's not very specific... but what does it mean and do? Luti, as I'm looking at him, has Expand Charm (6) and Expand Fitness (-3). What does that magnitude value mean? When are personality preferences put in to play? Does that mean he doesn't want to expand his fitness and athletics, or that his interest is lower compared to his desire to gain Charm and Art Appreciation? Or the other way around?

 

This is pretty deep and mechanical, but in short, you are correct: it means that Luti really likes actions that have Expand Charm effects, and dislikes effects that Expand Fitness. The number is used by the AI to figure out whether or not an action is worth it...even if it has an Effect on it that it dislikes.

 

Hope that helps! :)

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It helped a lot. :) Thanks a ton- lots to think over and work with, both for role-playing and for modding.

 

Probably some good information there for the wiki, too. Hee.

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Okay. Let me 'think'/write out 'loud', to see if I get it, and then there's just a few more questions.

 

I'll use Luti, as he has caused no harm so far. /g

 

(For anyone wondering, when I say 1d4 or whatever, that's D&D terminology for dice rolling; it means (rolling) one four-sided dice/(die? :P). 4d100 would be four 100-sided dice.)

 

 

On a simple day where nothing interesting has happened recently (such as, for instance, the first day of school), Luti 'wakes up' and rolls his 1d4. He has an equal chance of choosing studies, interests, personal, or goals.

 

If he chooses studies, he'll roll again: he's likely to end up studying rhetoric, but there's a chance for all of them. I'm uncertain if he can understand that when he's done with Rhetoric: I know towards the end of the year, you see NPC's constantly studying and failing repeatedly (until they've failed enough times that they decide they don't want to do that anymore). Is that how it works, or does he note when he's maxed everything out? If he has everything maxed out, and his 1d4 sends him to the AI-studies table, does he study anyway?

 

If he chooses personal or interests, he basically rolls a 1d100 and sees where it lands, then tries to expand whatever it wants him to expand in the most sensible way possible. This seems to be mostly where the Personality table kicks in, if I'm correct? Luti's likely going to want to Expand 'Art': his personality trait of Art Appreciation (7 magnitude) means he's going to favor an action that increases Art Appreciation first if he compares it point blank to one that expands Dance, though what he favors doesn't dictate him: he still may simply choose the Dance action, right? The part I'm a bit less sure about is what if he hits, say, the 5% chance on his Personal table to expand Compete- how does that interact with the -8 on his Personality table that says 'Actually, I don't really like this Compete skill. Doesn't do anything for me.'

...Or is it that he'll expand a Compete subskill without problem after hitting that 5% chance, but if, say, he found some bizarre action or ability that somehow managed to expand both Compete and Art while looking to Expand Art, he'd choose to ignore it and use an action/ability that just expands Art unless his desire for Art Appreciation was able to overcome his dislike of the Compete skill?

 

Okay, back to that 1d4: if he chooses goals, he'll start with the top, Academic Success. When he feels he's done with that, he'll move on to Developing His Inner Life (art, art, art!), then when he finishes that, he'll go chill with his familiar. The part I can't find or figure out is how does he decide when he's done with a goal? Academic Success, for instance, has Expanding the Relationship with Professors in it. I can't imagine that he's going to try and get to 10 with all the adults before moving on... he'd never get to goal two, much less three and four and five. (Not to mention the Tru Wuv goal... surely the kids don't go and expand relation with every student of the opposite gender they see!) When do they quit?

 

I presume that the Confidence and Courage ties this all together, as in, it says 'how far will Luti go to get these goals done?', yes? (Apparently, not all that far.) I am guessing that's part of how he decides to give up: a character with higher confidence/courage will keep trying something that fails more often, maybe? I'm not sure I get this part too well, or what the difference between the two stats are mechanically.

 

With 10 Erraticity, Luti's one of the students more likely to go off the rails (tsk, Luti, I never would have expected). I ask for clarification again: does that mean he just randomly chooses something to do ('Hm, I think studying bees would be fun today!'/'Woo, I have Bitter Stalks! Let's see... YOU!'), that he skips a goal and goes back to his personal or interests table, or that he chooses to laze around and do nothing (slacker!)?

 

That's the basic. Sort of.

 

If the option comes up and is available, he's highly likely to go about his goals in sneaky ways. On the other hand, if you go hostile on him, he only has a 10% chance of going hostile back (if he does choose to go hostile, does he look at the Vendetta table or just sort of pick something he can do hostile-ly at random?). That seems to make sense.

 

Which just brings one last question- Vendetta. Once you put a character in Vendetta, do they now roll 1d5 and add Vendetta in to the mix? Do they always use the Vendetta table while the Vendetta is going on?

 

Other then that, I... think I get it. Mostly.

 

I'm sorry for dumping all these questions on you, Legate. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer them. :)

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Okay. Been playing with this all weekend. It's fun, but at the same time, the inability to copy and paste is a bit annoying. I wish I could just say 'Okay, yeah, she has familiarize the familiar, too' and copy that over rather then having to retype and enter everything. Maybe for next year's tools?

 

 

I'm back to an old question, sadly: Confidence and Courage. What does each mean and do?

 

What exactly is Erraticity? Was I right in my assumptions about poor Luti?

 

And is there a way to set a character with a goal (or some sort of interest, if necessary) of expanding or increasing their vitality that won't make them sit around and rest constantly? That's what seems to happen so far with my messing around.

 

 

(Also... >.> What influences whether a student is likely to skip classes or not?)

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Mikka;

 

Here you are:

 

Erraticity would mean that he will choose something completely at random to do, if it fires.

 

Well, the problem with the Expand Vitality effect is that it's not very common. As a result, if he doesn't have access to it, and yet he chooses to work on his Goal, he'll just end up Resting. Daydreaming about how cool it would be to Expand his Vitality, I guess. :)

 

So, the way you want to handle this is to teach him the steps he needs to take to get that Expand Vitality Effect- then, he will be able to use it (and it may appear among his normal activities.)

 

For Skipping- that's been mostly taken out in Year 1 due to something like 10% of the Students getting expelled (!), unless of course they are compelled to do so. There are some small variations (like Erraticity) that can cause it to occur anyway, though.

 

Let me know if that answers your questions!

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Thanks for your answers, and the PM. :D

 

I think I almost have all the answers I need, but everytime I say that, a few more things pop up. ._. I'm sorry for all the questions, and again, thanks for taking the time to answer them. :)

 

 

* None of the students start with any items, but does the item (and spells, and phemes) panel work if I wanted a student to start with something? And are students clever enough to equip items in the correct slot if they start with it?

 

* AI - Vendetta table. What is the difference between 'Effects' and 'Goals', besides that for Goals, you could set more then one effect? I can't find a common theme- for some students, adding friendship is a goal, for others, it's an effect, for some students transfering items is a goal, for others, it's an effect... the only common thing seems to be that just plain 'Hostile' is always a Goal.

 

* Am I correct that the Vendetta table is switched over to when Declare Vendetta is used? I assume a student moves back to the 'normal' study/goals/interest/personal table after a duel, but will they switch back if the Vendetta subject and themselves go to a positive relationship? (Are there ways to end a Vendetta besides a duel? I've never tried that.)

 

* Is there any common amount for how many skills a student starts with? I noticed for attributes, many students seem to have 14 (save for the ones that have an attribute of 8, anyway), but I haven't been able to figure out skills. I've mostly just been going with what feels right, but I don't want to make kids too over or under powered.

 

* Will a student do jobs? I set a student with a parental approval 0 to have a goal of earning money, and he seems very confused, even though he has the Astrology to at least be working at the Four Phases Bookstore (not to mention the fields and so on). He's the one with the one I was trying the VIT increasing on, though, so that may be bugging him out. I just figured I'd ask to see if you knew before trying another experiment, as recreating the mod takes a long time. >.>

 

* Can a 'We will not use hostile actions against each other' geas be set through the mod-tools without a duel happening, or is that the only way?

 

* And once again, is there any huge difference between the Courage stat in the Student window and the Confidence stat in the Personality window and what they do?

 

 

Thanks so much. :)

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Mikka;

 

Sure! For your questions:

 

* None of the students start with any items, but does the item (and spells, and phemes) panel work if I wanted a student to start with something? And are students clever enough to equip items in the correct slot if they start with it?

 

Yes, these should work, and they will equip items.

 

* AI - Vendetta table. What is the difference between 'Effects' and 'Goals', besides that for Goals, you could set more then one effect? I can't find a common theme- for some students, adding friendship is a goal, for others, it's an effect, for some students transfering items is a goal, for others, it's an effect... the only common thing seems to be that just plain 'Hostile' is always a Goal.

 

The primary difference is that once the AI has chosen a 'Goal', they will work through its steps before choosing to do anything else Vendetta related.

 

* Am I correct that the Vendetta table is switched over to when Declare Vendetta is used? I assume a student moves back to the 'normal' study/goals/interest/personal table after a duel, but will they switch back if the Vendetta subject and themselves go to a positive relationship? (Are there ways to end a Vendetta besides a duel? I've never tried that.)

 

You are correct. Generally speaking, the AI will try to choose one Action from the Vendetta Table each Day- but there are many reasons they will not, including Erraticity. If they have more than one Action available in a Day, the others have less chance of being taken from that Table.

 

* Is there any common amount for how many skills a student starts with? I noticed for attributes, many students seem to have 14 (save for the ones that have an attribute of 8, anyway), but I haven't been able to figure out skills. I've mostly just been going with what feels right, but I don't want to make kids too over or under powered.

 

"What feels right." ;)

 

* Will a student do jobs? I set a student with a parental approval 0 to have a goal of earning money, and he seems very confused, even though he has the Astrology to at least be working at the Four Phases Bookstore (not to mention the fields and so on). He's the one with the one I was trying the VIT increasing on, though, so that may be bugging him out. I just figured I'd ask to see if you knew before trying another experiment, as recreating the mod takes a long time. >.>

 

They will do jobs, yes, if they have the appropriate AI Effects and Abilities available. Expand Money would be the Effect, of course. One other thing to watch out for on the AI Tables- be sure that each Table has at least 10 Effects to choose from, and that they total 100%.

 

* Can a 'We will not use hostile actions against each other' geas be set through the mod-tools without a duel happening, or is that the only way?

 

That is hard coded, unfortunately.

 

* And once again, is there any huge difference between the Courage stat in the Student window and the Confidence stat in the Personality window and what they do?

 

Yes! Courage feeds into some decision making, and about whether something is a good idea. Confidence determines how long an AI will bang their hand against an Action that keeps failing before going off to try something else. Courage can override Confidence, at times.

 

Let me know if you have any more questions. :)

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Can I get some information on how a character decides they're done with a goal and moves on to the next? I assume they go by alphabetical order (thus, almost everyone will start out with Academics). Currently, I'm guessing that they'll continue doing it until they try to study or raise professor relationships and keep failing (due to them being maxed), but what about more open ended goals? Bettering the Collage- you can compete for forever and a day, so when would they stop and move on to the goal after it? Same with things like gaining money, making friends/romance targets, raising allowance...

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Aha! That explains it. I was trying to figure out why a character was doing some of his goal 5 when he had very low skills for a goal 4- ah, beh, complicated to explain. But okay, cool. Thanks. :D

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