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Mikka

The most useful spells

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The problem is that Pheme you add just last for the duration of the spell and not of its effects.

So for Little Delirium its only a duration of 1 what is next to useless!

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The problem is that Pheme you add just last for the duration of the spell and not of its effects.

So for Little Delirium its only a duration of 1 what is next to useless!

 

Ahh!!! I KNEW there was going to be a catch in there somewhere ...

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That would be one way to increase inter-clique relationships, although I wonder if it's more time efficient than training Gossip.

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Embracing excess is kinda of an obscure spell, since not many people will be training Satyric Revelry, but its very useful for cliques with 5 or more people.

 

Do the relationship gains last? If so then this could be a handy spell if the clique is struggling.

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I managed one game without Cleanse and Remake, and it was... pretty hard. I'm surprised at all the people who manage to get through without using it at all, in truth.

I think thanks to Elegant Service you might be able to go without Cleanse and Remake and thereby Religion. You can gain a level 10 Favor every 4 weeks and so gain a attribute if you accept that you have to do a lot of rerolls. Also Insight can be brought early to 4 even if you only start at 2 just take Glamour or Dialectic as class and then you only have to get War 2 or Planing to 2.

I only test this way of play only partial so its just theoretical. (Actual I start by now even with Insight 1 and take a way to get war early to 2 instead)

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I don't use cleanse and remake. Never have in fact. Of course I rarely use spells at all because timeslots are extremely valuable for a guy who doesn't skip classes. I've developed a kind of intuited system of doing training and adventures in a way that minimizes the need for spells to pass them. The problem with that is after every DLC or after not playing for a while I have to re-intuit my way of doing things.

 

It doesn't lend itself very well to alternative playing styles though.

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I've used Cleanse and Remake twice, both times while testing something I needed to test quickly so I really needed stats right then and there. Both times I managed to fail a (mostly) untrained attribute/skill v. <10 roll with attributes exceeding 20. After reloading a few times to actually cast C&R six times with Piety 10.

 

In conclusion C&R is...not that great.

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I don't understand what makes Cleanse and Remake so great, it seems inefficient to me. You are wasting time casting that spell so it really shouldn't be used unless to directly enable you to do something you couldn't otherwise accomplish or perhaps enabling it to be done earlier. I'm just not sure which situations truly merit that, and at any rate I've done fine without it so far.

 

I guess that it does rank among the most useful spells as there are situations where it can benefit you, but usually making use of it seems sub-optimal compared to finding another solution.

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Every successful cast adds -1 to +5 to all non-Charm and -1 to +7 to all Charm rolls for four days. Utterly useless if you're into savestate cheese, but otherwise it's usually a general purpose "I don't know what's coming and I don't want to die" spell.

 

Of course I failed a simple roll twice after using it six times for, at worst, -6 to +30 to my rolls. Yay Random Number God.

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I stack up final or near-final adventure stages, then pound in C&R-M - +1.5 to +6 on every single skill check (+2 to +4 for charm) and generally 8+ permanent ability points over one weekend as a result. The spell is a great way of getting into the mid-range adventures when starting out, and then, if need be, jumping up to the really tough adventures. I've done some games without C&R-M but getting those first half dozen or so ability point boosts can be really tough, or require a lot of training actions which are often redundant by the end of the game.

 

The downside to C&R-M is the -1% chance of success that prevents stacking, if you stack up half a dozen spells you can fail even automatic rolls surprisingly often, I find that if you are really struggling a single cast should still get you 3 or 4 ability points from adventures, and a second follow-up spell after the adventure gains can then get you another handful or so - it works much better in series than in parallel.

 

It's a trade-off in the end, you could, for example, do 3-4 train actions (preferably with a library or the sphinx) to get the skill check up "naturally", but if you could get those skill-ups through adventuring anyway or find yourself topping out skills in the last months then those training sessions become redundant, meaning that the 1 slot lost early on through the spell is out-weighed by the slots lost on training that resulted in no skill-ups from adventures, REs and sphinx/library collateral gains later in the game.

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Wait, you mean C&R's -1 bonus to everything isn't -1 to all rolls? I figured that if it was a percentage it'd be listed as +1% CoF. That would explain a thing or two.

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I think that it is just a -1% CoF, but I'd have to open the game and read the text to be sure - I thought it was a fairly modest penalty barring stacking issues.

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You finish more than one adventure chain in a day? Then if one of the three fails you have to reload and redo all of them. Unless you don't reload but I don't view that as terribly feasible for adventures. I guess it depends what kind of character you are RPing but I just like the whole "chosen one"/"semi-evil mastermind" thingy involving an unusually talented/lucky up-and-comer and in that case failing something important completely just isn't an option. Setbacks are tolerable, total failure is a no go.

 

As I read the spell each casting of it will give you 0-3 bonus to a roll (that's the attribute effect) and then subtract one. So essentially you get either -1, 0, 1 or 2 bonus to the roll. It allows you to reach for an otherwise impossible roll, but it also makes you fail things you shouldn't and to me seems awfully risky. Especially if you are not into reloading.

 

I generally improve the skill to 8+ and perhaps train my familiar a bit in it and then I can do most rolls. Counting in stats/items and such. Also I get 1% success at everything from both "Shattered Mirrors" and "The Comet", I could swear something I've forgotten gave me another 1%. Anyhow it might not seem like much but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with why I occasionally surprisingly succeed at a purple roll at the end of an adventure. I've sometimes just played through it with the intent of reloading after I figured out what I needed to train, only to randomly succeed.

 

Have any of you tried spamming the Flawless pheme? It's only difficulty 3 and gives 1% success at everything. It seems very powerful to me. Maybe I should give it a go in my impending playthrough.

 

I wonder if it stacks by adding the percentages together so it could in theory be 100% or by doing 1% separately a bunch of times. Anyone know?

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As I read the spell each casting of it will give you 0-3 bonus to a roll (that's the attribute effect) and then subtract one.

Attributes add nothing to a maximum of twice their own value to an appropriate roll, and C&R definitely increases attributes directly (if temporarily).

 

Have any of you tried spamming the Flawless pheme? It's only difficulty 3 and gives 1% success at everything. It seems very powerful to me. Maybe I should give it a go in my impending playthrough.

 

I wonder if it stacks by adding the percentages together so it could in theory be 100% or by doing 1% separately a bunch of times. Anyone know?

I sadly don't know too many spells that are good as Pheme platforms, meaning low rolls and a long duration. Yes, 6th Finger, I tend not to have Enchant trained so setting it up is a time consuming pain.

 

I think Flawless will stack at least with itself. It might not stack with Glory and other stuff.

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Well I guess that makes attributes twice as good as I thought they were. Hmmm, interesting.

 

I make it a point to study all magic so enchant does tend to be something I've got reasonably high. Sometimes higher than if I actually had the class (I wouldn't want to waste time training what I'd get free from classes).

 

Anyhow you could do Improve Negation which runs on concentration and lasts 3 days. Pretty easy to get levels enough for a few points.

 

I suppose I can see the use of C&R now, but I'd still prefer to make do without. I find it to be unnatural for my character to pursue enough religious study to get the spell in the first place. I mean piety isn't theoretical knowledge on the subject but actual piety and belief, right? Doesn't fit my character concept.

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Well I guess that makes attributes twice as good as I thought they were. Hmmm, interesting.

 

I make it a point to study all magic so enchant does tend to be something I've got reasonably high. Sometimes higher than if I actually had the class (I wouldn't want to waste time training what I'd get free from classes).

 

Anyhow you could do Improve Negation which runs on concentration and lasts 3 days. Pretty easy to get levels enough for a few points.

 

I suppose I can see the use of C&R now, but I'd still prefer to make do without. I find it to be unnatural for my character to pursue enough religious study to get the spell in the first place. I mean piety isn't theoretical knowledge on the subject but actual piety and belief, right? Doesn't fit my character concept.

And now you know why everyone goes nuts for getting attributes.

 

I tend to learn whatever magic I can easily learn, which isn't much. There's no place to train Enchant like there is to train Astrology (admittedly the Mantle of Starts takes a mod to be efficient, but hey, I have one of those).

 

Three days isn't much, though. 6th Finger lasts for an entire week, and it has the Difficulty 2 Enhance (Pheme) to stack +1 buffs on top of what the spell itself adds to it's own roll. Yeah, 6th Finger is the best Pheme platform, bar none. Nothing else I know of even compares. The only, literally the only "bad" thing about it is that it rolls Intelligence/Enchant rather than Insight/Material Knowledge, but with that buffing potential...

 

Unless DLC 16 changed it:

Piety is not about accepting what cannot be changed nor enduring that which cannot be undone; instead, Piety is willfully[sic?] submitting one's self to the will of a higher power, be it the old gods or the new. Those who are properly pius will find themselves with greater freedom and ability to accept what happens.

 

Honestly Piety could fit my characters, and training Religion isn't hard either, but I just never bother. So far the only thing I've seen from temples are people demanding money for a reason I can't even remember, one groundskeeper that falsely accused me of creating a mess he caused for a silly reason which he (successfully) smoothed over by handing me an enormous bribe monetary apology, and...eh...that's it. I just see them as another faction I could get caught up with, but between the politics in the Academagia and my eventual ties to House Kazus I think I've got trouble enough.

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Mantle of Stars unlocks the skills just fine, then you can finish them through cozy discussions with the players' best friend, the Sphinx. Or the Longshade if it's still early game.

 

Anyway it makes sense that the best spell for semi-longterm buffs/enchants is an enchanting spell. I do wonder how it stacks, and if you can just keep adding casts of it (flawless pheme that is).

 

The description of piety sounds like what I assumed, something about willingly placing yourself lower than some unknowable power and accepting your hardships as somehow being acceptable. My characters are usually arrogant megalomaniacs who would need hard proof of a god's existence to treat it as a factor and even then would prefer not in any way bowing down. Excessive pride doesn't really mix well with piety.

 

It doesn't help when you have the theory that the gods were really just powerful wizards and that one could aspire to one day become one.

 

It'd be a great irony if it turned out luck was really a direct manifestation of the favor of the gods. Though I suppose the help wasn't directly asked for in any case.

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I personal use the big Attribute raise from Cleanse and Remake for training reasons in the early game when your attributes are still low.

Just cast it Friday and then you have 7 timeslot (without any class skipping) to train skills that otherwise would need 2 or even more steps per level especial for the Venalicium Library (Research) and learning Concentration to 9 its useful.

Remember it give you a fixed increase of 3 to all Attributes and 4 to Charm what is enough to train skills to 10 if your base attribute is at last 2.

For learning it I start when I have Insight 3 with 6 times Temple of Iudocia (Can be unlocked in the Dialectic adventure step 1 without a roll) and then 4 times Give Charity and Rework.

With only 8 in Piety you need some rerolls to get it done even with the Durand Prayer Grove as starting location but after this is done you can use Give Charity and Rework 2 times more to max Piety. You can also use Pray for Calm instead of Give Charity and Rework if you have something useful that give you 3 stress.

The first time I use Cleanse and Remake I usually also do a rest for Vitality 10 instead of the 2 I have from start.

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Paz. I think you're confusing the abrahamic definition of God with the complete definition.

 

A human being reaching godhood is not unheard of in real life mythologies.

The most famous exemple I can think of being Hercules and Guan Yu. Okay the first is not technically a human but he was a mortal and fit in the theme :P. The second is still worshiped as a god nowadays and has really existed at least as a mortal :P .

And of course the most famous exemple of all Buddha himself ;). (depending on the version of buddhism tough)

 

The same thing can be said for human reaching gods strenght while still being mortal.

 

Really the only thing consistent with the definition of gods in our cultures is that it's a being of great power (tough not necesserarily invincible even for mortals), immortals (tough they may be killed see greek gods), and living in another "plane" from mortals.

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Oh no, im very much aware of the difference. You dont need to search as far as Hercules or Guan Yu, a Pharaoh was considered a God for example. There's not a complete definition like you said. I would not classify a Pharaoh a God. There are many different cultures with their own ideas.

 

I say a human could reach God status or surpass the Gods by the Academagia definition. I read a book of nordic mythology, Percy Jackson series and played enough Age of Mythology so im just a fan of Mythology subject in general. :)

 

 

The Gods here would never be half as powerful or special as the abrahamic definition. Thats why i agreed with Dreamweaver about the Gods here being mostly powerful wizards, not truly Gods. I say the Old Gods are a bit different because at least they came first among few other reasons but in the end they woud not be Godlike as the Christian one.

 

There was thousands of Old Gods on Choris, they were pretty much a different race, or you can just say they fit into the polytheism idea. Still, however you choose to define them, i would like to see the Worship of the Old Gods in game.

 

Alrighty. :)

 

As for the Old Gods, they are still worshipped in Oursouk apparently so maybe in the futur... ;)

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You finish more than one adventure chain in a day? Then if one of the three fails you have to reload and redo all of them. Unless you don't reload but I don't view that as terribly feasible for adventures. I guess it depends what kind of character you are RPing but I just like the whole "chosen one"/"semi-evil mastermind" thingy involving an unusually talented/lucky up-and-comer and in that case failing something important completely just isn't an option. Setbacks are tolerable, total failure is a no go.

 

It depends on where your chance of success is, if you are pushing to auto, or have reasonable observation, awareness, perception, etc and good chances you can do 3 a day readily, although I'd usually aim for only 2 of those to be tougher ones to deal with the risk of failure. There are obviously some adventures which have very tough rolls you couldn't assume to cruise but I wouldn't do those until later in the game anyway. I use the wiki to check my odds before selecting the adventure and only do the final stages when I'm confident I can pass them first time. The difference though between getting on the adventure ladder early or having to train up to it are huge.

 

In practice it depends on how things go though, some games the adventures line up and you don't need the spell to pass the first few, in others I hit a wall and need the edge. Also, a few adventures, like the last stage of the Crows and one of the triplets outcomes, are actually better to fail and still fit RP-wise.

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