Forbidden Magic

[Metis]

Why do I get the nagging feeling that when my PC is done studying Sync I'm going to end up seeing all of Mikka's kids again after graduation...as patients?

[Metis]

Professor Knoht, you mean? What lores would those be? As for curing amnesia with Sync, that depends on how those memories were lost.

 

I swear I'll do a Read All Lores playthrough one day, I'm just...waiting for DLC 17 and Y2 (and boy, is that a wait).

[Metis]

That...is an interesting set of lores, and it paints A Day in Incantation a really disturbing new light. As for whether Sync could heal her, I'd say definitely. If her knowledge was hidden, not destroyed, than it should be possible to reconnect the memories through an Embrace and a high enough Sync roll. Heck, the lores themselves say that Orsi was able to restore a part of her, so whatever magic broke her shouldn't have stayed with her, although what "Societal magic" is supposed to mean I'm not sure.

 

The issue with the Sync approach is time and Professor Knoht herself. Even with Sync it could take months or years before that process finished, and there's no telling what Professor Knoht will do when she has half her memories back. Or all of her memories, for that matter. Personally if Professor Knoht approached me with a request for aid I'd at least offer the option of disconnecting those memories fully instead of trying to reconnect them, so she'd lose Marlaana the Old-Time Spy completely and be able to live on as Academagia Professor Marlein Knoht sans amnesia. Of course it'd be her choice, in the end.

[Albert]

Sounds like Knoht has a history aswell then.

 

That also helps explain her description and all the other stuff. If she could get restored though, I have a feeling she would be more powerful than ever with two skillsets and two lfetimes of different experiences...

 

Island shattering rage? I wouldn't want to be in the vicinity of that barony when she returns...

 

Also, maybe digging into Aarans mothers history and "stuff" might teach you more about Mastery and Synch... If Aaran allows you to snoop around, or maybe you could do it without allowing him to learn what you're up to.

 

If he get's worried just tell him you're trying to figure out if he has any relatives that could help or sometihng that could help him "fix" his bad luck and/or perhaps somewhere to live.

All the while you might find what you might be looking for. (especialy for the people who didn't "accept" the mark but who are still interested in learning more about the art of synch.)

[Metis]

I'm curious as to why Professor Knoht is still in that state. Actually, the more I think about it the more I suspect that the entire amnesia thing is an elaborate lie on the parts of at least Rosetta and Marlaana, possibly Orsi as well.

 

Marlaana is a natural and a master of the ways of the old-time spies that had abruptly left the court of a noble, which she knowingly and intentionally infiltrated to test the (inadequate) loyalty of the noble who started to become quite fond of her, on behalf of the woman the noble was engaged to. After reporting that "sparks" that vanished "instantaneously" nevertheless managed to land on Marlaana's head, doing absolutely no damage other than making her forget about just that which would have a scorned noble drag her to the guillotine for. Then she wanders trough Mineta under a new name and acting nothing like she did before, until she's brought before the Legate who only managed to restore a part of her memories. She's given a job and a new life where, if no one knows how to restore her memories fully, she could probably be pointed in the right direction. Yet...nothing.

 

I'd ask the Legate (not Legate Orsi, the cattier Legate) about this, but, you know, [redacted]

 

I really liked your thoughts about Aaran, since i want to learn Synch without getting associated with Kazus, for numerous reasons, so he might be an alternative. Maybe i am a bit too harsh on him, he has not pulled a Tulia or Reitz at least.

I'd say it's unlikely that she knows of it and even unlikelier that she's any good with it...but I'd have said the same about her knowing and being good with Mastery, so, eh, grain of salt and all that. As for learning Sync without being taught by Leene/Nhordum (and, subsequently, being known by House Kazus), it's supposedly nigh-impossible without a teacher, and there are possible complications with using Sync that aren't necessarily obvious.

 

Problem A: Most if not all of those complications, including the increased difficulty from the a lack of a teacher, concern Embracing specifically. Learning Light the Mind's Lantern, to name one example, has neither complications nor is especially difficult to learn.

 

Problem B: Nhordum's family probably aren't the only possible teachers in all Mineta. The Emperor's Sphinx, to name one example, could possible act as your teacher just as well, and there could possibly be others.

 

I might just type out an adventure later to allow for specifically that; learning Sync with the Emperor's Sphinx acting as your teacher in return for..."things". Maybe. I make no promises.

 

 

Problem C: The team may have different opinions either which way.

 

The only unavoidable issue I see if that two of Sync's skills are Empathy and Serenity. Those are kinda not in line with what you'd normally learn Mastery for, so if you're learning Mastery for power...you logically wouldn't be able to learn Sync too well. Of course, if you're learning Mastery because you, say, want to protect yourself from the power of others, well, go right ahead.

[freespace2dotcom]

I am the type that largely doesn't care about other people and let them go about their own business until they try to interfere with me. I'll even try to help them if it is not too much of a bother.

 

Amazing I did not see that about Knoht. I don't care for spying myself so I did not see that until it was pointed out here. I already liked her but this puts her on even ground with Briardi, Sixt, and Orsi as my favorites. Clearly she must be fairly powerful to have been present at the opening of Carnage on the Fields... If she was able to do her spy stuff too...

[Metis]

More important is that Orsi has every reason to employ a master spy. Briardi is too clear and obvious to be able to stab von Rupprecht in the back, and he will need to get stabbed in the back at some point. Fatally if Orsi thinks he could get away with it, I reckon.

 

So glad my Y2 character will be a Hedi kid who probably will suck up to Piaxenza most of all, because hey, dream research and Sync, so s/he won't have to bother with that...mess.

[Albert]

It's definitely more interesting to be daring in a game.

 

 

Then again, you could roleplay different characters and experience different paths. My first students were a lot more laid back on the forbidden magic and didn't really bother with it, and school grade focused.

 

 

There are also a few other Professors who arn't aligned to a specific college. Baldasare whatever the geometry teachers name was, Aventyrare(Revision), Ringrayer(Glamour), Canapiedra(Rethoric), Matain Leith(enchantment) (even if it feels like he might be alligned with Vernin even if it isn't stated), Valenta(Arithmatics), Pachait(Zoology)(does seem to be close and cudly with Morvidus though), Pluiete and Vickery also seem to be College less. More or less.

 

The Professors with a clear attachment to one College or another seems to be the Regents. Even if one could guess that the schools who run a class as a college required class would be closely tied to that professor.

 

Also, what if it isn't just Knohts skills that are hidden from her but soem parts of her personality, her actual identity.

We might not know her aswell as we think.

[Metis]

For all that i read and saw of the game, Knoht is not faking her condition, yes, she was ( or is ) A Master spy, so she could be acting but it does not seem the case. As to why she still in that state, if you did the Octavia Egidi adventure, you can see healing the mind is not an easy thing. It took the Legate, Briardi and the player working togheter to create a new spell to heal her. Maybe someone of Aaran's mother level could had an easier time, but the Legate is not known for Mastery or Synch; and Briardi Mastery was more for self-defence.

 

Also, when the team created Knoht, there was no Synch at the time, since that was your creation and it came out this year. So Mastery was proscribed and Synch did not existed so would be hard to heal her mind. Now that Synch is out the explanation would be a little different than they originally intended, but she stilll dont see to be faking.

Thing is that Octavia is in a much worse state than Knoht is:

The spell failed, but my attempting to cast it created another spell, one that damaged and even destroyed parts of Octavia’s mind. Every memory she held before I cast the spell was obliterated. Her very first memory is of the spell. For almost a year she lay in bed, in a sleep that she could not wake from.

 

Not only that, but it's plainly stated that the Legate managed to fix Knoht at least to an extent:

Orso gave her food and a place to stay in the Bel Alze Tower, and through some complicated Societal magic, was able to draw from her some of who she had once been.

 

It it true that the team came up with Knoht long before I came up with Sync, but the lack of Sync wasn't the (main) issue. That's not to say there isn't one, but I personally suspect that if Knoht wants to pursue a cure she (and the Legate) have enough to go on. And if she doesn't, well, I can reasonably guess why.

 

As for Synch, i dont seem much likely outside of Kazus, but the option is there already, we can learn from random skills and invest from there. If you ever decide to write another Synch adventure would be nice, especially with the chance to work with the Sphinx, since in In my game she was the one that gave Ana Flavia her new wand, so im kinda fond of her and would like her as an ally.

Well, the thing is that in Y1 you're just grasping the basics and performing a surface Embrace after Leene, inadvertently, gave you at least an example of how to do it. And even that little (relatively) the PC most certainly wasn't expected to be able to learn on his/her own in a single year. The PC is a prodigy, no doubt, but trying to learn it without a teacher is just going to become increasingly harder and dangerous, since you have no one to clean up after you (like Nhordum had to after Leene's first Embrace) and no one to tell you about rather important details that's going to result in problems. Like, say, "don't combine Sync and Mastery - it will mostly likely only result in bad things". Not to mention that Sync was (supposedly) obscure even before the ban on Mastery, so researching it yourself is going to...be a problem.

 

That said I don't want Sync to be exclusive to the Gressel crew (and, in turn, House Kazus) or have the entire story fall apart because gameplay wise there's not a lick of difference between researching Sync or researching Recipes. The solution is to introduce a neutral teacher, and who better than the Sphinx? People that want to learn it in secret can do so, the Sphinx can teach the PC so that completely independent research (in comparison) will seems hopelessly inefficient and a general waste of time, and the Sphinx can (be persuaded to) keep the entire matter quiet (she's have to with all the Gates she likes to teach me in Y1).

 

Regarding Empathy, well, if you have the other 3 subskills at a high level you could be a good Syncher already. Not the best still pretty good. Nordhum does not seem nearly as empathic as Leene, and he is possible better at Synch than her. If nothing else, Mental Bridging sounds the most important of the subskills

Again, the "3 subskills to raise parent skill" thing is more a gameplay mechanic than how Sync is meant to work. Nhordum definitely doesn't come across as especially empathic while he definitely outranks Leene in terms of Sync skills...but that's mostly because he's good at not showing things. Composure is a focus skill for him, as is Dispassion incidentally, so don't expect a show from him. As for Mental Bridging it's arguable, but without Empathy you mostly wouldn't be able to see what you're doing with it, at least during Embrace. That's kinda a problem.

 

About Mastery i would like both protection and power. Not really the control person aspect. On a VtM ( vampire game ), there was 2 distinct powers

 

Dominate: Mostly the equivalent of what we know has the control aspect of Mastery here, and

Auspex: Where some of the powers where Telepathy, Clairvoyance and Mind Reading.

 

In this setting, Telepathy and Mind Reading is Mastery, but i was used to another scenario so i get mixed feelings. I know mind reading as mostly unethical, but it could be fun, or just disastrous.

Thing is that in Academagia there's a ton of overlap. Dominate 3 (The Forgetful Mind) especially.

 

My character can die young; glory, forbidden magic, adventurous, and so on. Still, i plan to live by the time year 5 ends ( if we ever see ). Not really my playstyle but you have the right attitude to stay out of trouble. I like a calm ambient real life but on the game i like to be a bit more daring.

I find that daring can be fun, but mostly it's a bunch of trouble I may or may not be able to deal with. Incidentally, be thankful neither Leene or Nhordum learned a lick of Gates, so even if you have it they're not likely to recognise traces of it (that is my story and I'm sticking to it). Besides, if I go Black Sheep with my Y2 character I'll definitely want to keep my head down (maybe, hopefully).

[Metis]

@ Metis, i agree with you it overlaps too much, i think on defence against Mastery part you can do preety safely without ever training Mastery, you can just improve Negation, Awareness and Wilpower, and i can live without mind reading and telepathy.

 

Its more a matter of im gonna be Considered a Rogue Mage already because of Gates, if i should just learn Mastery aswell, but i imagine is indeed safer to dont go down that path regardless of Gates.

 

So, in a different game, i can ignore forbidden magic entirely, but on my main game, that is Avila, i feel i would miss too much.

Sync and Mastery indeed overlap greatly in function, but not in methodology or effectiveness. It all depends on what you want to do and whether you want to be nice about it.

 

It might indeed be safer, fewer chances to get caught doing something illegal that way, but depending on what you want to do with Gates either Sync or Mastery could be a useful skillset to study on the side.

 

I never get concerned with illegal magic. Gates because it just doesn't interest me and I doubt I'd get very far without Schohanwicht even if I did, Mastery because it and Sync don't play nice and I can't imagine many situations where I could get away with using it even if I skipped Sync.

[freespace2dotcom]

I'm pretty sure that one exception is the legate, actually.

 

I as a player would really like to see what would happen if Sync and Mastery proper were combined. I have a morbid and dangerous curiousity, to be sure. Just because of that though, doesn't mean I lack the ethics as to actually try that on a person (that was not actively and irreversibly out to kill me, that is.... Anything is fair game then.)

 

But I am not so overly impressed with sync that I would dedicate much time to learning it. If all it really is, is one spell, then the rest of the skill is in manipulating the effects of that one thing.

 

I prefer the idea of spellcasting lots of different spells, so much as to have something for any potential occasion. Mastery seems overall easier to learn and more flexible to use, even assuming that you were a saint and would never ever misuse it.

 

As for Gates, I am fascinated by it's potential, and the fact that you can't really duplicate it with other pillars. I think that it is something that ought to be reserved for emergencies, also, but really I expect that Gates is one of those things that is known by a whole lot more than anyone would ever admit.

 

I really expect any of the really juicy magic to have to need teachers. illegal stuff especially. I'm unwilling to risk connection to such people because it most assuredly comes with strings. I'm content to learn the illegal stuff on my own in spare time, and to the extent possible within that limitation. I'm not interested in being a master in these arts (well, unless I mastered all the legal arts, which is very unlikely) so I will be content with that.

[Metis]

I'm pretty sure that one exception is the legate, actually.

 

I as a player would really like to see what would happen if Sync and Mastery proper were combined. I have a morbid and dangerous curiousity, to be sure. Just because of that though, doesn't mean I lack the ethics as to actually try that on a person (that was not actively and irreversibly out to kill me, that is.... Anything is fair game then.)

 

But I am not so overly impressed with sync that I would dedicate much time to learning it. If all it really is, is one spell, then the rest of the skill is in manipulating the effects of that one thing.

 

I prefer the idea of spellcasting lots of different spells, so much as to have something for any potential occasion. Mastery seems overall easier to learn and more flexible to use, even assuming that you were a saint and would never ever misuse it.

 

As for Gates, I am fascinated by it's potential, and the fact that you can't really duplicate it with other pillars. I think that it is something that ought to be reserved for emergencies, also, but really I expect that Gates is one of those things that is known by a whole lot more than anyone would ever admit.

 

I really expect any of the really juicy magic to have to need teachers. illegal stuff especially. I'm unwilling to risk connection to such people because it most assuredly comes with strings. I'm content to learn the illegal stuff on my own in spare time, and to the extent possible within that limitation. I'm not interested in being a master in these arts (well, unless I mastered all the legal arts, which is very unlikely) so I will be content with that.

Does the Legate count as an instructor, though? I wouldn't think that he teaches any classes.

 

Yes, try to use Sync/Mastery on someone who is actively and irrevocably out to kill you. That is a brilliant plan that cannot possibly go horribly wrong in any way.

 

Well, Sync has a few spells (Subtle Calm, Zone of Calm, Light the Mind's Lantern), but the Embrace spell is indeed the most noteworthy spell and the one most demanding in terms of having to learn the whole skillset.

 

Hope you'll train Memorization then, because you're going to need to remember a ton of Pheme strings .

 

No kidding. "Using an enchanted item technically isn't the same as casting a Gates spell" indeed. At least I'm not guilty of it personally.

 

Yeah, if I ever type that adventure the Sphinx will make you work for it, and not through asking riddles. I don't know what the Sphinx's plans are, but I don't doubt I can make the PC work to forward them anyway.

 

i say Mental Briding is the clear winner on Synch set is because while you may not form a proper synch session with low Serenity or hurt the feelings of your pacient if you dont have enough empathy because you was not gentle, a low Mental Bridging could leave the patient mad, for what the skill description say, and i imagine even in a vegetative state for real botch sessions.

So, you might initiate a proper synch session with high serenity and have the empathy of a mother, but one should never ever attemp with poor mental bridging skills on the first place because good intentions is not enough, its necessary the ability to not scar the patient for life.

Overall, i understand its mostly a mechanic system.

During an Embrace Serenity is used to avoid making your presence obvious and overwhelming, Empathy is used to determine what you can and should do. Details aside, though, that botching a Mental Bridging roll will do more damage than botching an Empathy or Serenity roll is an entirely factual statement.

 

Imagine that a character is under investigation of knowing illegal magic, and Briardi ws about to compels him to say the truth, how could she investigate the student and get out without her even knowing those informations?

With a Mastery-gates combo.

"Mental gates or gateways that lie in the mind are often set there by others in order to safeguard secrets, memories, or plans. As the mind can be penetrated with the right magical abilities these gateways are often locked against anyone but the individual who set them and are sometimes there unbeknownst to the host of the coveted information. In these instances the gate stands between the conscious information or the knowledge, memories, and abilities that one had access to and the information that is not readily available."

Maybe it's It's no so simple, but it really seems like Gates-Mastery offer some interestng skills.

That...is a fair point. I never really thought about combining Gates and Mastery beyond "summon creature with Gates, dominate with Mastery, victory".

[Metis]

I do recall the catty Legate mentioning there being...what was it, like 80-some professors working in the Academagia? Knoht being the exception to the rule of them being tied to colleges due to her being a generalist mage and/or her memory issues is believable.

 

Sync is indeed limited in terms of utility, but if you need to accomplish what Sync can accomplish there's likely nothing better. Incidentally, do you recall the name of the beast that attacks the PC during An Outing...? The Sageni Vunuster? Perhaps you should take a closer look at it .

[Metis]

Right idea .

 

Actually not the right answer . Although, there's a few good band names in there.

[Metis]

Here's a hint:

 

Rather than "Sanguine", try "Sanguis". Google Translate tells me it's a correct word/spelling...but I can't confirm .

[Metis]

Not to mention that the thing is a bloodsucker, although one that is active during the daytime and not especially picky about it's prey.

 

I don't remember exactly, since it's kinda been a while, but I remember one VtM mechanic being a loose inspiration for one aspect of Sync. Not Obeah, though . I'll actually dig through my old notes, see if I can find anything.

 

EDIT: Yep, looks like my memory was accurate. Ironically, since while the existence of that specific side of Sync as been hinted at repeatedly I don't think I it's ever been explained fully...

[isadorbg]

Imagine that a character is under investigation of knowing illegal magic, and Briardi is about to compel him to say the truth, how could she investigate the student and get out without her even knowing those informations?

With a Mastery-Gates combo.

"Mental gates or gateways that lie in the mind are often set there by others in order to safeguard secrets, memories, or plans. As the mind can be penetrated with the right magical abilities these gateways are often locked against anyone but the individual who set them and are sometimes there unbeknownst to the host of the coveted information. In these instances the gate stands between the conscious information or the knowledge, memories, and abilities that one had access to and the information that is not readily available."

Maybe it's no so simple, but it really seems like Gates-Mastery offer some interestng skills.

 

 

 

You should not underestimate Negation. Magic has one great weakness and that weakness is that it can be dispelled.

 

Add to that that Negation can also find remnant of spell used and magic still in effect and you have a big problem.

 

As long as it's magic, Negation can vanquish it. That's my view anyway.

 

In the end it's only a duel of skill between the Negater and his/her opponent.

 

And that's why you should fear Negation Masters as an illegal practiser.

[Metis]

Good thing I don't have to worry about it than, because guess who'll be going the legal path with learning Sync .

[isadorbg]

Good thing I don't have to worry about it than, because guess who'll be going the legal path with learning Sync .

 

Legal ? But for how long ? .

[Metis]

Another half decade at the very least, especially since House Kazus has weathered the legal storm since it's founding before the latest (and ongoing) ban of Mastery was introduced 300-some years back. Rest assured, they know how to survive.

[freespace2dotcom]

Pssh. The ones to fear will be the omni disciplinarians!

 

http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2939

[Metis]

Hey, good thinking on that Anagram, that was fun to find out.

 

And i think Isador has a point, Synch could go rogue depending of how the story progress and the player choices and influence. Im going to get some forbidden magic already so for me its fine either way.

I'd really it rather not. There's plenty of potential for bickering elsewhere.

 

Pssh. The ones to fear will be the omni disciplinarians!

 

http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2939

Not overly afraid of the spiteful bully that'll learn all magic and only use it to be a show-off, honestly. Besides, guess who isn't going to be sticking his head up high enough to be noticed by the occasional bully?

[freespace2dotcom]

I've personally considered it as something you could nail someone with without their knowledge, and make their life miserable for a while from the shadows. More of an anti bully skill. Sure it's show-offy to this forum, but I see it as being a clever way to make something very difficult to negate in setting, seeing as how rare multi pillar stuff is I seriously doubt many negators have experience with undoing something of that magnitude, so the 'victim' is assuredly going to suffer it the full length.

[Metis]

I've personally considered it as something you could nail someone with without their knowledge, and make their life miserable for a while from the shadows. More of an anti bully skill. Sure it's show-offy to this forum, but I see it as being a clever way to make something very difficult to negate in setting, seeing as how rare multi pillar stuff is I seriously doubt many negators have experience with undoing something of that magnitude, so the 'victim' is assuredly going to suffer it the full length.

Something you can make someone's life miserable with from the shadows isn't an anti-bully skill, it's a bully skill. If a more subtle bully skill than bully skills generally are. At least I won't have to worry about a lack of patients when, if, I fully learn Sync.

 

Im gonna be learning forbdden knowlede because of Gates already but i dont feel much of a Dark mage, so i also prefer Synch as legal i had to choose.

I don't intend for the PC learning Gates to ever come up during any part of An Outing... or it's follow up adventures. I don't know how Leene or Nhordum would react to learning their student was learning Gates on the side, either.

 

Making life miserable for the entire school? Either a bully or a prankster

 

Other Omni combinations could be really powerful.

I wonder if it'll be greater than the sum of it's parts, and a worthwhile investment at that. I honestly can't imagine how learning a little of everything would allow you to accomplish more than you could with a bit of creativity and mastering one field.

[Albert]

Something you can make someone's life miserable with from the shadows isn't an anti-bully skill, it's a bully skill. If a more subtle bully skill than bully skills generally are. At least I won't have to worry about a lack of patients when, if, I fully learn Sync.

 

I don't intend for the PC learning Gates to ever come up during any part of An Outing... or it's follow up adventures. I don't know how Leene or Nhordum would react to learning their student was learning Gates on the side, either.

 

I wonder if it'll be greater than the sum of it's parts, and a worthwhile investment at that. I honestly can't imagine how learning a little of everything would allow you to accomplish more than you could with a bit of creativity and mastering one field.

that really depends on how far you get in that field. But if you get really good at several fields then it's easier to accomplish more.

 

If you throw Enchantment and Orthography into the mix then you can boost the effects and add additional possibilities by preparing your display before hand.

 

Just imagine if you put in some powerful enchantments in the faceoff area where you intend to intercept your target or challenge them.

You could enchant some curses and things into trees and the ground and nearby rocks/walls that disrupts their ability to cast certain spells. For example the negation you expect them to need or use to cancel your curse/spell or defend themselves.

Making their defences fizzle and perhaps even backfire on them.

 

Then they won't just be up against your dueling powers or spellcastign powers, but rather the trap you setup for them. It could actualy tip the balance in your favor even if the other spell caster is older and more experienced because they first have to figure out what's happening and counter it in a good way before they can get back to dealing with you.

It might seem cowardly, deceitful and more... But it would be a way to gain an advantage of a broader skill set.

It wouldn't surprise me if Vernin students who wern't as schooled in combat magic would use their skills to find a way to even the battlefield to their advantage.

 

You could even use some Orthography to help hide the enchantments and make it harder for your target to see what's going on and where it's comming from. Where you put the enchantments that's messing with their spells... Or that particular patch of ground that's cursed with bad luck.

 

I really would like to get a chance to you have an adventure where you can set an elaborate magical trap to aid you in your quest.

 

Your trap skill would help you pick the locations for the enchantments, orthography would help you hide them and your strategy skill would help you place the trap where you might be able to catch your target.

 

Maybe some spying skill helped you learn of your targets plans or schedule and habits.

Even if you're lacking in certain spell compartments that ambush might give you the advantage you need to secure a victory and overcome your opponent. That would also be a omnidisciplinarian way to handle things, just with a different type of skill sets.