Book level's

[Schwarzbart]

Wits just came up with the idea of book trading with other covenants and because we have a scribe grog this should be no big hassle.

Now there 2 things we have to come up first.

 

1) There are diferent categories of books and we need to put the limit of each of the categories first for our RPG

The 4 Categories for summa/tractus for Arts acording to Covenants 95 are

- Least Expensive (mostly damaged books)

- Vain Books (Below average)

- Sound Books (the average Quality traded, personal opinion what a mage with com 2-3 could do who is a expert in the Art )

- Excelent books (I think for Tractus Com 5+3+3 Assistance +1 Resonance= 12 at minimum with 17 the theoretic maximum)

The curent absolut upper limit is 35 Build points if I have it right in mind.

 

2) What of our covenant books are nearly exclusive for our covenant and what are fare spread ones.

Our up to date library: http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2529&view=findpost&p=25041

[Adrian]

While the idea seems good I've no idea what this actually means.

What limit are we putting on these categories?

Also, are we planning to copy the books we borrow?

[Schwarzbart]

No its about buying new books via Vis or trading a copy of one of our book for a copy of a book from a other covenant.

There is usualy no lending of books that teaches the Magic Arts or Abilitys.

[Nyaa]

There is usualy no lending of books that teaches the Magic Arts or Abilitys.

So we can only trade spellbook?

[Schwarzbart]

Huh I didnt say a single word about Labortexts. All I talked about is books for the different Art and Ability that are specific for the Hermetic Magic.

 

But lending of books that contain any form of magic is a taboo as fare I understand it as alone the transportation could damage a unrepleacable book.

You either get your own copy done by theyr Scribe or no book at all.

Or would you lend books in the worth of 3 Vis + (Sound Tractus) simply to the next people who come visiting you?

Remember all our Master at the covenant let our player Apprentice study the books in our library the first time after they became full mages I think that says everything!

 

There is the other posibility to be guest at a other covenant for some time with the allowance to study or even copy theyr books but thats also not for free.

[Nyaa]

Sorry, your intro sounded like we are going to trade books with other covenant but we can't trade any magic book or ability book so I am wondering what book we can trade at all?

 

By magic/art book I assume include summa/tractus too.

 

Edit: I have no idea what you are talking about like Adian here, got a book page for the rule instead?

[Schwarzbart]

Covenants page 95 have categorised the books in different level and have set the Vis prices acording to this level!

The problem is that there is no definition what is i.e. a sound summa!

So the question is where each level start and where it ends.

Are our 20-21 Build Point summa already sound Summa or still Vain books.

Are our 31 Build Point Summa already Excelent Summa or still only Sound summa and so on.

 

Edit: for a Excelent summa even a good Vis source might change hands but for a sound one only 10-20 Vis depending on the level.

[Wits]

I think we'll have to ask CJ about this - the opinions of the senior magi would determine covenant policy, probably. My suggestion would be that each summa between 20 and, say, 33 is sound for these purposes. That means we have a few vain ones (bjornaer, covenant lore) and several excellent ones (penetration, magic theory...). If we follow by the Covenants book's dictum, then the excellent ones would be untradable as per oath, but most of the sound ones should be fair game.

[Schwarzbart]

Only 34-35 Build Points for excelent? Remember 35 is the unbroken upper limit that is possible for Art summa!

I would say 32-35 should be the smallest span for excelent Art summa.

Also the span for Sound Art summa should be only 6-8 points in my opinion as Vain Summa have the same price calculation but are fare less requested.

So I would say

~25-31 are the Sound Art Summa

17-~24 Vain Summa

everything 16 and below is Least Expensive.

[Nyaa]

Since Libellas was burned down, they should have a lot of "least expensive book" for sales since they might need vis to rebuild.

 

Edit: That and they probably are very willing to restock on magic book for their library. Maybe we can make it an acceptable reason for the hermetic community if we say we are selling it to them to "help their covenant get back on their feet". Might also help with our case in the future trial.

[Schwarzbart]

You miss out that there is no market for least expensive books as nobody want them.

The maximum price you ever can expect for a last expensive book is 1 Vis per Summa or 3 Tractus.

Also keep in mind that a book cost at last 3 saisons in totall to be copyed acording to the covenant rules.

(Scribe 1 saison and up then 1 saison for the illuminator and finaly the binding also 1 saison)

[Nyaa]

The maximum price you ever can expect for a last expensive book is 1 Vis per Summa or 3 Tractus.

Still seems like a long term extra income for me. We could probably get a few vis we don't have like Animal vis out of it just for hiring a couple more scribes.

[Schwarzbart]

Huh so you want to let the scribe work on wortless books instead on Sound Summa that gives 10 times as much vis and where is also a real market?

[Nyaa]

I am quitting this conversation.

[Adrian]

I think I see what you are saying Schwartzbart, but as you can plainly see most of us are not really overly knowledgeable into the finer details of Covenants, vis, relative income and trade. (And likely a long list that I may not even know I am missing!)

 

However, if this adds to your enjoyment then by all means, but I can't help in setting prices, terms-of-use and so for the books. I'm afraid that you, Wits and likely CJ (if you can get ahold of him) are going to have to figure this one out.

 

If you do choose to add this book trading though, and settle on some prices/primary rules then please let us know though

 

(I have a feeling this is what it must be like when progress passes you and all you can do is watch hehe)

[Wits]

I think the point of the book trading would mostly be to get books on subjects we don't have but need - finesse being at the top of the list probably. This would be bargaining to the tune of "do you want a copy of one of our sound summae in exchange for a copy of your finesse summa?" Beyond that, it might be too much accounting to do it for vis.

[Schwarzbart]

I agree with wits on this. Trading for Vis can be done when we have writen our own books but not bevore this.

The Vis cost is only there to have a excange rate betwean different books.

Even to get the missing Finesse book will take us probably nearly 2 years.

[Schwarzbart]

Found the official levels for Tractus in Covenants 94

Excelent tractus ~14

Sound tractus ~11

vain ~6

 

Given that the base formula give a +6 the 11 only need to bring up 5 more points. Then seeing that +4 can be got by paying mundane Master worker and buying some mundane material for resonance I even would say thats the lowest level for sound as one should expect that a good tractus is writen by someone with a positve com.

[Wits]

That's interesting information, thanks. Don't know how I missed that.