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I think it's cool to pickup both Mastery and Cyncronisity just for the shoolarly interest, like how a collector collects collectibles in mint condition but never remove them from their package!

 

So.... You studded mastery... Why?

 

To add it to my collection! It was also good reading!

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The Master's Mark doesn't completely prevent you from using Mastery spells, mind, and studying it is a great way to get bad ideas in your head. Sync and Mastery don't mix, so be careful about what you study.

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That brings up another question, does the mark prevent you from using mastery artefacts that could "cast spells"? Let's say you inscribe a staff or some kind of item/s with the Mastery phemes needed for a certain spell?

 

Also, I would have loved the mark if it also provided protection against mastery ;) Now all it does is remove your best protection, Seal agaisnt mastery that reduses an enemy mastery users chance to cast spells by 90%.

 

I guess it owuld have been overpowered to do that however. Or maybe, I could make a staff or cloak or bracelet that helps me cast a seal against mastery spell on potentialy hostile mastery users. I guess such an item would be illegal though, even if it's only good agaisnt mastery users and does nothing to anyone else. Just because the phemes are "illegal".. But that would be a nifty item to have against mastery users. Point and shoot, and then you don't have to worry about Mastery too much.

 

Would seal against mastery cause any real problems if you got Syncronisity? It's not realy harming this other person, just stopping them from hurting me with mastery.

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The Academagia commes under attack by a large group of Mastery mages.

 

The Legate calls for strategy meeting.

 

Student: Excuse me, I got 100 "Seal against Mastery" staves that I crafted last month, perhaps we could distribute them?

 

 

Hanging? Beheading?

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I don't think the Mark prevents the owner from using enchanted items. Remember that the Mark is a voluntary limit, so it's not really designed to shut down loopholes like that.

 

Yeah, originally the Mark would have protected you from Mastery as well, but the team deemed that overpowered and changed it. Hopefully they'll add a way for Sync to actively fight off Mastery attempts beyond just the Counter-Mastery action. There definitely is potential, especially because the one thing that a wizard using Mastery would expect less than a victim that knows more Mastery than he does is a victim that know Sync at all. Now mind, you don't need to be even half-decent at Astrology or Negation to detect/reveal the Mark, but it's such a rare thing that very few know about it, and the very few that do rarely care to look for it.

 

With regards to whether Seal Against Mastery counts for the "Sync and Mastery don't mix" thing: Unlikely. The part about them not mixing refers to the idea that A: A spellcaster cannot combine both aspects without running into some paradox (see my earlier posts) and B: A subject cannot be subjected to both Sync and Mastery at the same time without being emotionally torn in half, which will quickly erode their sanity in ways that Sync cannot fix easily, if at all.

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Than there's something seriously wrong with you and you'll thus be unable to properly learn Empathy, and in turn to properly learn/use Sync.

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I think it's common that you can get away with using a parrentskil with only 3 of 4 skills... I think... That might mean a psych with no empaty what so ever might be albe to rip peoples minds appart.

 

Apply, mindbridging, instinct, serenity, some hate and anger and cause the victim a lot of pain.

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The "3/4 subskills increases the skill" is more of a gameplay mechanic and less representative of how Sync is supposed to work, but yes, I suppose it's possible to wing it. Nevertheless, you run into the issue of feeling whatever pain you inflict on others yourself, due to how Sync works. You'd need to be seriously messed up to tolerate, let stand enjoy that.

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Now for the other Magic skills you also want to skill all SS but my character also didn't managed to find the time to skill Empathy as well.

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The "3/4 subskills increases the skill" is more of a gameplay mechanic and less representative of how Sync is supposed to work, but yes, I suppose it's possible to wing it. Nevertheless, you run into the issue of feeling whatever pain you inflict on others yourself, due to how Sync works. You'd need to be seriously messed up to tolerate, let stand enjoy that.

You could take others pain and shield it of, what if you jsut create a lot of pain in others and shield of their suffering inside them? If you got no Empaty to begin with.

 

Then we would have a new mastery type of threat, one that's using Syncronisity to kill people from the inside, a "mind shreder". Almost like those mindflayers from D&D I think it was.

 

Let's say there is this other type of group that's totaly merciless and enjoys the power of tearing other peoples minds appart with their minds. Especialy since it's so effective now that people arn't used to it and there arn't really any defences against it. Obey or die! Someone tries to cast an incantation but quickly dies instead because they were killed from the inside, or simply to distracted to follow it through.

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I dunno I'm not convinced someone who learnt a piecemeal form of Sync by coming across bits and pieces on their own couldn't corrupt it into something really gross. It's not like you can't use knowledge of human anatomy to do terrible things, even if the clearest use of it would be in medicine.

 

Also a lot of characters I play end up with maxed out Temperance/Dispassion/Composure/Lie/Deceit/Willpower. It's not entirely clear how those interact with Sync.

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Am I the only one that's disturbed by the fact that when provided with a form of magic meant specifically to help people the discussion immediately turns to "how can this be used to hurt/kill/drive insane/other things?".

 

As for the mind flayer idea - no dice. Sync cannot do that, it's simply not something it's magic can do. Now proper Mastery is a different story, but Sync isn't capable of such things. And if you "shield" yourself from something you're not "blind" to it, it just doesn't affect you, you still know exactly what the other person should be feeling. And an individual broken enough to knowingly do that to others wouldn't be using Sync, they'd be using Mastery.

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I'm just curious because people are known to lie to themselves. In serious cases you have people who will commit crimes like murder and despite being faced with say, video evidence, continue to deny that it happened, even to themselves.

That and it seems a little crazy to me that Empathy would be so crippling that you would be unable to defend yourself from a Dragon, a species known for enslaving humanity for hundreds/thousands of years of terror and death. Does Synchronicity disable the normal rational AND instinctual parts of the brain?

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The problem is that with Sync you can't lie to yourself. The only way you could, when in Sync, honestly believe you, say, didn't commit a murder you did commit is if you suffered brain damage at some point. Even false memories provided by Mastery won't hold, assuming the caster's skill is up to snuff - that's one of the things Sync is used for (maybe, if the team agrees).

 

And about Empathizing with a Dragon, I said it's possible and that failing to do so is a failing of Empathy. I never said it was a smart thing to do, I just said it's a thing.

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Ah, so you are saying that Synchronicity by its nature is likely to heal some of the broken people who might otherwise try to use it in a harmful way? Yeah, I can see how that would follow. I'm still not sure how it would interact with someone who was say, already trained in Mastery when they learned it, though.

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A lot of other people doesn't seem to care about others, especialy if they know they are trying to hurt you or kill you, and possibly others.

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You have to be mentally stable to learn Sync and someone seriously has got to teach you how to do it personally because otherwise you'd be up a smelly creek without a boat. I always imagined that the first lesson of Mastery was being Mastered, to understand what it's like and what you'd be doing to people if you fly off the handle and go around controlling others. What I know, though, is that this idea is the standard for Sync, at least as far as House Kazus is concerned:

"I've been told you already went through the initiation, so rather than an embrace I will simply explain what will be expected of you. It is unusual, but I given how...personal embraces are I will not ask you to experience it again."

 

Recall, "Embrace" is the industry term of Syncing with someone.

 

And I know care is in short supply, but that's what a fantasy setting is for. No more prisoner's dilemma.

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The Master's Mark doesn't completely prevent you from using Mastery spells, mind, and studying it is a great way to get bad ideas in your head. Sync and Mastery don't mix, so be careful about what you study.

 

Huh? The legate said that learning the basic skill helps greatly for the study of the specialisation? It's not the real purpose of the mark that you have to study Mastery to master (haha) Sync and the mark is there so the "temptation" to mix become pointless and to helps with legal issues ?

 

You don't need the basic Skill necessarily to improve an advanced Skill, but it helps immensely.

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Am I the only one that's disturbed by the fact that when provided with a form of magic meant specifically to help people the discussion immediately turns to "how can this be used to hurt/kill/drive insane/other things?".

 

Whats so suprising? thats the human nature. That's why Mastery and in a lesser degree Gates are so dangerous not because their "evil" magic in theirselves. The real question is not what good those pillar can do but what harm someone can do with such a power.

 

We are egocentric, many human will make others suffer if it can make their life better or even worse just for pleasure. For me the Mark is also there to prevent you to make such choice even if it seems for the "better", which is why it is absolutely necessary

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I honestly fail to see how learning proper Mastery would help with learning Sync. Theory of Mastery perhaps, but Sync does not require any Mastery-exclusive Phemes (as far as in-game mechanics currently go, at least), does not work with any Mastery-exclusive spells (otherwise the Mark would be kind of a problem), and the Methods aren't really conductive to one another. Feeling for the pawn you're dominating like a puppeteer isn't a good prospect, and neither is breaking into the mind of the person that you're meant to be helping.

 

That...really doesn't explain anything. If humans are so naturally drawn to everything evil why doesn't Incantation cause more wildfires?

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Hmm.. I think that you're view of Mastery is a bit too harsh, i don't think Mastery is only about dominating and puppeting a person (even if it's an important aspect of the pillar) just like incantation in not only about fireballs and other elemental magic. I believe that at the very least the Methods and the Theory are important since Sync lacks both of these so obviously the Sync "methods" and "theory" are included in its basic skills. Even if the methods is mostly about how to dominate doesn't mean that the sync way is not teached in . After all some could say that the Sync way and the Mastery way differs only by the intention and by asking the "puppet" to let the Sinc users to let them in their minds and leena shows that she could force her way if she wanted. For the spells agreed their are illegal as for the phemes i don't know, for what i remember most of them are not even illegal and who can says if some might be needed in the future ? we only learn the very basics of each pillar in year 1 afterall.

 

 

That...really doesn't explain anything. If humans are so naturally drawn to everything evil why doesn't Incantation cause more wildfires?

 

I... don't really understand the question? if the question is why people don't use the main pillar to evil deeds, well they do? their is alot of ill intentioned wizard in the adventure? mjolnir didn't use incantation to drown mineta, afterall ?

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If I'm harsh on Mastery it's partially because what you actually get from learning it ingame is...well...eh...yeah. I think I counted a total of 1 spell that wasn't hostile, if not necessarily typed as such? Sure, as Y1 student you only learn the basics, but how exactly is "force the target to hand over an item they're holding and all of their money" the basis for "manipulate the target's memories to treat PTSD"? If you have to learn A to learn B there's a slight moral issue there...

 

If I had to guess I'd say Mental Bridging is the Sync Spells skill. Empathy, Instinct and Serenity are the Methods, which combined also act as a Phemes skill. The Theory would still be with Mastery, which makes sense since the Sync adventure gives you at least a step of Theory of Mastery, two if you convince Leene to explain what she did to you. Actually learning the Theory would result in your learning a few Mastery spells, but, well, that's what the Mark is for. Also, fun fact: One of the Phemes needed to cast Master is Zenith. You can get this from Mastery Phemes 9, Revision Phemes 5, or from Oan's tutorial on spellcasting. I think it's fair to say that at least some Phemes used in Mastery are not illegal.

 

Some might say that the only difference between Mastery and Sync is that the latter gets permission, but they'd be kinda wrong. Without the Sync skills breaking into someone's mind, even with permission, and rooting through it will be a rather unpleasant experience. Perhaps a lesser of two evils, that is certainly a possibility, but still unpleasant. Sync, in contrast, focusses primarily on making it's presence feel non-threatening, if not masking it altogether.

 

When does Leene force her way into the PC's mind? When she finds him/her unconscious, tripping and being snacked on by a Sageni that specifically used his Mastery skills to trick him/her into offering no mental or physical resistance?

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, that second bit. Why is only Mastery/Gates considered dangerous especially, to the point of being banned, when people use all pillars for evil?

Edited by Metis

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If I'm harsh on Mastery it's partially because what you actually get from learning it ingame is...well...eh...yeah. I think I counted a total of 1 spell that wasn't hostile, if not necessarily typed as such? Sure, as Y1 student you only learn the basics, but how exactly is "force the target to hand over an item they're holding and all of their money" the basis for "manipulate the target's memories to treat PTSD"? If you have to learn A to learn B there's a slight moral issue there...

 

Maybe but thats also why the Mark is there isn't it? I could argue that doctor trough their study learn quite a lot of ways to kill people with their deep knwoledge of the human body but quite fortunaly those study focus more about how to heals the body than harms it and only a few "unstable" one uses their knowledge to do harm (altough the na** showed us that even great doctor can find horrible way to kill people en mass).

So why not the reverse? Study Mastery for it's good part? For me like i said earlier in this thread all pillar are very broad subject on their own and can have potientally very broad utilites afterall sync itself was a part of Mastery (and still is for myself).

 

 

IIf I had to guess I'd say Mental Bridging is the Sync Spells skill. Empathy, Instinct and Serenity are the Methods, which combined also act as a Phemes skill. The Theory would still be with Mastery, which makes sense since the Sync adventure gives you at least a step of Theory of Mastery, two if you convince Leene to explain what she did to you. Actually learning the Theory would result in your learning a few Mastery spells, but, well, that's what the Mark is for. Also, fun fact: One of the Phemes needed to cast Master is Zenith. You can get this from Mastery Phemes 9, Revision Phemes 5, or from Oan's tutorial on spellcasting. I think it's fair to say that at least some Phemes used in Mastery are not illegal.

 

Well i disagree. I consider the Methods to be the magical knowledge to use the pillar not the mental skills, things like hand waving, the stance etc.. Ek even the lore agrees with me;

 

Mastery Methods is a skill that encompass everything from folks wisdom to tips about wand technique; it's not as easily defined as Mastery Phemes or Mastery Spells, but as a line of study it's no less important if you really mean to seize control of you fellow human beings.

 

Ok forget the last part :P:P, my point still stand as being a knowledge not covered by the sync subsill and important for it but again as the legate said

 

You don't need the basic Skill necessarily to improve an advanced Skill, but it helps immensely.

 

Which mean everything really, you can improve you Syn whithout using Mastery but it will be a lot easier if you do increase the basic skill too. I think you block on the morality of Mastery too much and forget that Sync itself is an offshoot of Mastery so saying that the knowledge of the latter helps to master the former for me at least is not that illogical really..

 

 

Also, fun fact: One of the Phemes needed to cast Master is Zenith. You can get this from Mastery Phemes 9, Revision Phemes 5, or from Oan's tutorial on spellcasting. I think it's fair to say that at least some Phemes used in Mastery are not illegal.

 

That's what i said, so maybe for the future synchro, some phemes found under Mastery Phemes might be usefull for sync? So let's agree that Theory, Methods and Phemes might be useful ok ? :P

 

 

 

When does Leene force her way into the PC's mind? When she finds him/her unconscious, tripping and being snacked on by a Sageni that specifically used his Mastery skills to trick him/her into offering no mental or physical resistance?

 

I did'nt say that Leena forced her way only that she could and the exemple you gave is a good actually remember that she made contact with the PC without our consent? so she already Sync us before asking even if it was for good i can still see how she can abuse her power especially the fact that you feel really powerless in that part of the advendure but really what i meant is that in many ways Sync and Mastery are very alike (for good reason !! :D ) and the real difference is in the intention of the User not the Magic itself.

 

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, that second bit. Why is only Mastery/Gates considered dangerous especially, to the point of being banned, when people use all pillars for evil?

 

Good question. Why guns aren't outlawed in USA ? that's beyond me but well..

 

For Gates, that's because of the chaos factor that can lead to catastroph like a year 1 mage summoning a Dragon some even say that the destruction of Monteon was caused by Gates but who knows?

 

For Mastery, well because someone mastered lose is freewill which something that us human found really amoral for some reasons.

 

But the real answers is for the Elumnian the "good" that those magic could bring are outweigh by the potential evil they coul bring :)

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We have been shown that mastery spells can help strengthen yourself and even others, it can even in some manner of the word heal you or someone else.

 

It can also be used to disarm immoral mastery users, which makes t a good defence against mastery wrongdoers.

 

While you can do a lot of "bad" with it like enslaving people or turning them on their friends and family or inflicting a lot of suffering you can also do good with it.

 

I think the main problem is for people to uphold the ethics to use it responsibly. Tbh, the situations where mastery seems right seems to be very, very few. I never pick it to win that talentshow, or to make people carry those crates for me for the sake of a few pims.

 

The reasons for it getting banned are mostly due to "user error". People using it for personal shortterm gains, like a few extra pims or forcing people to work for you for your own personal gain. Those people will hate you afterward. If you use Mastery to stop a Dragon from destroying a city, then I'm pretty sure you would be seen as a hero by most. If you use it to save a dying person, or get them out of a dangerous situation when their own strength is failing.

 

Knowing mastery shouldn't be a crime, and it doesn't seem to be one even if it does seem to make people weary of you. All those horror stories about a mastery wizard enslavinga village to make them work for him, and treating him like royalty.

 

I can see why it was "banned" since a lot of people would missuse it, and it makes things easier if you don't have to worry about every student having mastery skills.

In a way it might make those wizards who do know Mastery to be more careful with how or if they use it at all.

 

Imo, it should be legal if you're given permission by the reciving party or if it's used on yourself, or possibly for selfdefence if attacked by others(Or maybe that's seen as taking selfdefence too far, using more force than necessary).

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