isadorbg Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Ah the eternal dilemna between Morale and Ethics. Doing what's good Vs Doing what's right. That's why i believe such adventure would be awesome it can lead to interesting situation depending of the pc personnality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 If the person in question is guilty of studying Mastery I want an option to hand him over to House Kazus just to see Nhordum have a heart attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted April 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 I personally see Mastery as simply another field of magic. Simply knowing it is a kind of power, even if it is never directly used. That power is most heavily observed when needing to deal with (and potentially defend against) Mastery itself. Whether by knowing if sudden jerky moments are something to truly fear or recognizing the phemes in a spell to make a better negation. I can't let myself pass that up. Also I may just be of low morals, but if a Glamour can bring about the same effect (even if by different means) it should be okay. That opens the door on a lot of Mastery so I know why that's not feasible in practice, but the law is stupid sometimes. I got a chuckle when in another new adventure where a group of Masterers were killed by one of their victims through the metal link that the player character comments in observation that if they told stories like that a lot less people would try to learn Mastery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Well, the person's reason for studying forbidden magic will definitely impact how the PC, if not the player, will respond. Incidentally if it's found out through Sync than, well, lying about it flies right out the window. I personally am rather confused as to how the separation of the pillars is supposed to make any sense. To use Zone of Calm as an example again it's typed as a Glamour spell, it's unlocked by Synchronicity which in turn is a different form/off-shoot of Mastery, and one of the Phemes needed for it (Serenity) is something you could get from studying Tease, Acting, Bluff, Composure, Serenity (the skill) or Gates. I wasn't kidding when I said Phemes are all over the place. Yep, that's from A Walk Along the Lake. That does make me wonder just how often "accidents" like that happen, though, since while few people practice Mastery the curious students that dabble in it aren't going to be very skilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted April 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I personally see the wide overarching range of how phemes are discovered is because phemes are tied to concepts rather than specific magical effects. Phemes seem to be discovered when exploring a certain concept magically. Serenity (as in controlling your emotions) would be useful in all those fields of study, so you would discover that pheme while exploring that concept magically. It just so happens that the magical effect of the pheme is not usually directly tied to the location or action where you first discover it, which may have been wholly an accident while doing something else. Yeah, I actually suspect that Gates magic is actually going to wind up with more accidents due to lack of knowledge, to say nothing of the chaos factor. Mastery has always been in the shadows to some extent, so I expect the magic knowledge weathered the banning relatively well compared to Gates, where it was shown that Gates practitioners themselves actively destroyed the public knowledge where they could. I am curious if a character shows knowledge in the forbidden arts that they might get invitations to the circles that teach them in Y2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xandran Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Honestly Glamour itself can be pretty nasty. You could do a lot of things that are honestly just as bad as anything short of the actual 'Master' spell with Glamour. March of Terror is something you get to cast like a million times and it's not a very friendly spell! Gates may be more associated with accidents, but you also have to consider that apparently Dragons use it all the time with zero fear of whatever it is that we are afraid of. Dragons use Gates as if it was an extension of their body, almost. There is something that we don't know about Gates that they do, and I can't see the choice to stop studying it completely as justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Honestly Glamour itself can be pretty nasty. You could do a lot of things that are honestly just as bad as anything short of the actual 'Master' spell with Glamour. March of Terror is something you get to cast like a million times and it's not a very friendly spell! Gates may be more associated with accidents, but you also have to consider that apparently Dragons use it all the time with zero fear of whatever it is that we are afraid of. Dragons use Gates as if it was an extension of their body, almost. There is something that we don't know about Gates that they do, and I can't see the choice to stop studying it completely as justified. Unless Gates requier you to be inhabited by a demon to control it then it would make sense that it's some form of knowledge or insight component that's missing. Maybe some kind of flow between different realities that the Dragons knows how to compensate for. Maybe they can sense the tides of whatever is in between. Those who can't might missfire and get the coordinates very wrong. Also, fixed physical points that have been created using gates magic knowledge like Gates teleortation stones seems to provide anchored points for you to target with great precision. It was also mentioned that items inscribed with gates spells provided more control than doing it manualy, Least that's what Orso Orsi said... Legate of the Academagia. Whatever the failing is it seems to reside in the human mind, human error. The knowledge might be correct, but the humanminds ability to apply in space and time it might be off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Maybe bigbang happend in the World of "Academagia" aswell The thousands of years old knowledge of Gates might be getting more and more outdated and volatile as the universe keeps expanding. I doubt that's the case, but it would be an interesting twist... Magic and Science finaly provides an answer. Gates, Astronomy and the Geometry parent skill, Arithmatics..... Dialectic... And then you arrive at an answer. Gates will only get even more unstanble until it stops working all together, or where the accidents might get appocalyptic! The dragons might know how to revise the Gates theories but they arn't sharing any more Gates secrets after humanitys rebellions. That would be a twist. But it will likely be some kind explanation like, demons are at the doors and their mere presense makes Gates magic unstable... They are like a giant blackhole trying to devour the world. That force is twisting all Gates magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I recall there being a theory that the chaos factor was caused by a creature known as Puppet Strings, which was apparently shot down in DLC due to one adventure mentioning an individual being at the wrong end of a Gates spell, three times, back during the Middle Empire, I think? Free should know about that better than I do. Fun Fact: Both A Walk Along the Lake and the above-mentioned adventure (To the Entrance) are mine. Which may or may not be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted April 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Yes that's my theory. Not convinced it's fully shot down, but the timeline I established was meaning it probably wasn't (directly) responsible for the calamities. everything else of my theory is still up in the air as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 If the creature is responsible.... Then just kill it or destroy it, or banish it.. or whatever... I know... MASTER IT! Then have it tear itself appart with a million gates tearing of individual cells or pieces of it's body til there is nothing left of it! Does that sound Evil enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Yeah...Puppet Strings is kinda beyond the scope of "just set it on fire with Incantation", if I understand things correctly. And Mastering a creature like that is probably going to irreparably damage your sanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted April 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 And that's a best case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Yeah...Puppet Strings is kinda beyond the scope of "just set it on fire with Incantation", if I understand things correctly. And Mastering a creature like that is probably going to irreparably damage your sanity. Still worth it, it seems like it is the worst threat to the world there is, if it had something to do with monteon, even indirectly. Then it must go or the world is doomed. And that's a best case scenario. Still worth it! The only alternative would be to accept that it represents the end of the world and accept that it's happening. Ofcourse it's insanely powerful. Agitating it might speed thigns up, but, the world seems doomed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted April 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I personally have plans to Incant plasma to burn it, Negate any magical effects it may have left over, Revise the ashes into pieces of concrete, Glamour them out of all awareness, Astrology to prevent their being found, and Gate them to all corners of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I read that and suddenly imagined a palette-swapped Omoikane hovering over a diary in the Chamber of Secrets saying "Yeah sure you did all of that, but I made a back-up of myself in this diary so I'm back". I think figuring out whether early game Academagia really is as annoying as an Atlus game on hard mode between watching speedruns was a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isadorbg Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 My own little theory, is that the chaos factor is related to the Exile. Dragons separates elumnia froms Cyve which is unaccessible even with Gates so hey maybe it had effect on the magic something like a ''barrier''. Afterall the real question is why they did that?Since apparently they can travel to both region unhindered and i read somewhere that Gates was the most effective magic against them so yeah why not? Edit: About Puppet strings maybe it has something to do with the destruction of Monteon or Gates but certainly not both and i don't think the creature is related to the instabilty of Gates since we have no mention of the creature that goes far in the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted April 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 but that doesn't explain oursouk mages' perfect Gates ability. Anyway all we know is that Puppet string existed prior to the Calamities because it had arranged an army of incantors to attack the armies of the Emperor. (when incantation was supposedly new) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 How is their perfect Gates ability explained if Puppet Strings is behind the chaos factor? ...I probably should keep my head down because Gates is not my forte, but eh, why not. EDIT: That typo never happened. No sir, no way. Never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isadorbg Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 i thought Oursouk mage could only use teleportation safely ? and Dragons can use Gates too without the chaos factor aren't they? I know Puppet string existed prior than the calamities but the Gates factor seems to date a long time ago remember that the legate said that both Gates and Mastery had been banned and unbanned (not nessesarily at the same time) many times in history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isadorbg Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Since it's better to add source to your claims here is what i could find digging the Vernali... ermm the question thread I believe it was about 300 years ago that it was proscribed (and not for the first time, either!) The legate talking about Gates. http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1274&page=10 E) Gates and Mastery knowledge are punishable by death, with a few exceptions. It's nearly impossible to get an accidental knowledge of these kinds of magics, as they must be studied, and cannot be the result of casual contact. That said, one or two Skill Levels would be considered as casual contact and would earn you a Reprimand. Actually *casting* these Spells is much more serious, and generally won't be overlooked. Sometimes cloistering or expulsion are allowed, especially where the family is important enough, but the laws are generally applied strictly in these cases. Assuming you are caught, of course... About my claim that forbidden knowledge can be 'hum' dangerous . I'll continue to dig. http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1274&page=7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 "It's nearly impossible to get an accidental knowledge of these kinds of magics" Tell that to the twenty times I've had to reload because a random skill up gave me Gates/Mastery. Not just the Sphinx or Longshade, either, one time I got it from the Station: Well-To-Do background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 Reprimand doesn't sound that bad, that's what you get for getting caught skipping a class.... It isn't that bad, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svinik Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 "It's nearly impossible to get an accidental knowledge of these kinds of magics" Tell that to the twenty times I've had to reload because a random skill up gave me Gates/Mastery. Not just the Sphinx or Longshade, either, one time I got it from the Station: Well-To-Do background. There is the truth, and there is orthodox understanding, the two are not necessarily the same in the eyes of the criminally insane/heretical. As they can only prove knowledge by use of mastery or trickery; I suspect that what they would catch you for would be use of a gates/mastery spell, with the usage proving the possession of crominal knowledge - with the bonus that while an illegal spell might be blocked with the right charm, the only way to punish illegal knowledge (given mastery is illegal) is to kill/incarcerate the owner (for significant knowledge). So making the knowledge illegal rather than making the use of spells illegal drives much harsher punishments with less chance of reprieve - if you are caught and can't buy the jury anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted April 25, 2014 Report Share Posted April 25, 2014 I really think it's problematic to make knowledge illegal. Actions are another thing all together. Who makes those laws anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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