Playing with/ Thoughts on the Game in General.

[isadorbg]

As they can only prove knowledge by use of mastery or trickery;

 

Not really no

 

If you were under suspicion for having used Gates or Mastery magic, there are Negation tests that can be used to determine if you cast such magic. Negation also can compel you to tell truths, although this is more rarely used

.

One nasty pillar this one

 

http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1274&page=8

[Svinik]

 

Not really no

 

.

One nasty pillar this one

 

http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1274&page=8

 

Hmm, missed that post/forgot it, quite a wide definition of negation there I suspect

[isadorbg]

i had quiet a long argument with Metis about the size of a pillar so yeah don't tell me

[Metis]

So wait, Negation can...that...

 

...but...

 

...I'll just pretend I never heard that.

[isadorbg]

Negation is so overpowered. It's the ultimate pillar against magic and mages. Never even understood why it isn't mandatory for everyone. (dispell your mistake should be the first things learned)

 

Edit: For my dear Metis

 

http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1274&page=32

Mastery has a wide number of healing uses, too- removing (shorter term) addictions, numbing pain, easing mental distress. But it's all a slippery slope.

[Mikka]

It's sort of background information, but Aaran's mother was supposedly a Mastery mage who concentrated on the healing uses of Mastery (though with the changes in this DLC, she likely would have had Sync as well, and she did have some blind spots). I'm not sure if he ever mentions that in year one, though, or if it's just background information that'll come up in later years.

 

Wait, does that mean I spoiled people? Hm!

[Albert]

Negation does seem overpowered. Also, the Legate in that thread mentioned that certain Negation spells could be used to identify if a person had used Gates or Mastery.

 

What if that person is also very good at Negations and other skills that caan help him/her negate or hide whatever it is the Negationspell is detecting. I assume it's part of that background radiation you create while using magic.

 

Illaro also seemed to have some way of "hiding" his "aura".

 

So there might be several ways to manipulate such atempts to detect or track you. It might requier a lot of skill however. What Illaro would have needed was a multi component solution, one that hides his aura, and then a pin that simulates a weak incantation and perhaps enchant aura. That way instead of a hole or void like the Legate told the player it would have seemed like a normal magical anomaly for a magic school. (perhaps looked like another student or professor)

 

 

Also, the negation to make people tell the truth, what about all those skills that helps you resist interrogations and magical attacks and compulsion? There should be some kind of save or resist or ability against pretty much anything, you just need to be good enough at it.

At first, there might be some kind of Insight and willpower, composure check to outright resist the spell.

After that there might be skills you could use, even easily activatable mental abilities to overcome the influence of the spell or twist it enough to create loopholes.

What if you link your mind to your familiar and have it say no for you through your mouth!(You would need to have an incredibly strong familiar bond for that I guess, and a very skilled and loyal familiar, who isn't stupid either)

 

Adventure, you are taken in for interrogation. Your save, link up with your familiar and have it handle the interrogation for you.

 

Then you get another Adventure where your familiar has to use it's skills, wit, bluff, lie, storytelling and other skills to get both of you out of trouble. The thing here is that yuor familiar wouldn't be affected by the interrogation spell and could act through you freely as long as you allow it through the bond.

 

Interrogator: Did you use Mastery Magic?

 

Hawk with lacking education: I'll claw you with my tallons when I get loose!

 

Interrogator2: I think the spell has made him break down completely, he isn't even answering the questions, how's that even possible.

 

Interrogator: He isn't making much sense either.

 

Hawk with lacking education: Get these things off me! Now! They are ruffling my feathers!

 

Interrogator2: We definately need some additional help in here, that's not supposed to happen.

 

///////////////////

 

Interrogator: Did you use Mastery Magic?

 

Hawk with basic education that understands the situation(to some extent): No, Mastery magic is bad!

 

Interrogator2: Did you use another type of magic spell containing illegal mastery runes that could have caused an unforseen effect? Which would be just as illegal!

 

Hawk with basic education that understands the situation(to some extent): No, not that I know of. Can I go home now? I want a raw juicy piece of meat or fish after this!

 

Student cutting in and breaking the link: Sorry, I missed lunch and Asmita promised me something she called Sushi! Which she apparently learned about from this other kid, whoever she was...

 

Interrogator: You will have to wait here while we inform the court of our findings, Cornelius, give this young student an apple and a glass of water, so we don't get "sued" for not feeding our "guests".

[Albert]

As for killing that, puppetmaster gates scrambling monster.... One probably shouldn't do it alone, and you should probably overwhelm it with all kinds of threats.

 

Magic (all types), non-magica-, alcemy, gunpowder, gunpowderbullets of different designs and materials. Holyrelics, prayer for intervention and just about everything you can throw at it.

 

Hopefully it would be vulnerable to something, if nothing else, if you hit it with enough distractions then it might overwhelm it's defences or cause enough damage to actualy get to it.

 

If it's that old and noone else has been able to get rid of it then you need to create a superior plan, perhaps use some deception if possible. Perhaps glamours/paint/othography/enchantment to make things look like something different so that when he/it tries to defend it might defend against the wrong type of attack or threath, making the defences less effective.

 

If all else fails, try to open a gate to the sun burning it for millions of degrees, (might be hard if it has control over gates) But at the same time if he's distracted by other threats he might not take a gates spell seriously, how could a gate him? He might think) I'm assuming it's a "him" since it's not called a puppetmistress or something like that. Or it could be an it.

 

It might be hard to research the creature, but if possible that would also help you setting up a strategy even if what you find is very limited.

 

Clearly seems like an adventure for the later school years or a post-school adventure.

An adventure for the Gates wizard who is tired of havign his magic twisted, and who realises that the creature is a threat to the whole world, family, friends.

[Metis]

Mastery has a wide number of healing uses, too- removing (shorter term) addictions, numbing pain, easing mental distress. But it's all a slippery slope.

I knew that, the issue is the slippery slope part. You have to first learn how to control people before you can learn how to control them in just the right way, and public opinion isn't going to look very kindly on that idea. Besides which, having absolute power of someone? I imagine more than a few individuals quit their lofty goal of curing addiction because they got addicted to it.

 

It's sort of background information, but Aaran's mother was supposedly a Mastery mage who concentrated on the healing uses of Mastery (though with the changes in this DLC, she likely would have had Sync as well, and she did have some blind spots). I'm not sure if he ever mentions that in year one, though, or if it's just background information that'll come up in later years.

 

Wait, does that mean I spoiled people? Hm!

There's few that would teach her Sync without demanding she subject herself to the Master's Mark, and learning it without a tutor is, gameplay mechanics aside, supposedly incredibly hard. I suspect she researched Sync, found that it gave up some of what Mastery can do in order to become what it is, and she decided to study the healing applications of Mastery to see what, if anything, was lost. Sync isn't a subject often discussed or talked about, but I imagine someone with the means to study Mastery would have the means to research other forms of Mastery, at least.

 

Also, the negation to make people tell the truth, what about all those skills that helps you resist interrogations and magical attacks and compulsion? There should be some kind of save or resist or ability against pretty much anything, you just need to be good enough at it.

For the record: Sync would be easier to resist than a Negation/Mastery if you refused it, but refusing it kinda paints a bad picture of you. Yes, privacy, it's definitely a legitimate concern if you know what an Embrace is like, but most don't and when you're accused of a capital crime you're expected to shift priorities a bit anyway.

 

Also for the record: If you agree to an Embrace, nothing is going to hide anything you know other than Mastery or Sync itself. The bad news is that the use of Mastery to hide something is, in and on itself, difficult to hide, though the good news is that it's at least not impossible. Sync is much better at hiding something, even from other Sync users, you just have to be better at it (which actually comes up in Y2 - Nhordum is more skilled at Sync and it will show).

 

If all else fails, try to open a gate to the sun burning it for millions of degrees

You can't Gate to the surface, but you can Gate into outer space? If that's true I'm going to say that the Gate-to-Surface thing has been/is being intentionally messed with.

[isadorbg]

You can't Gate to the surface, but you can Gate into outer space? If that's true I'm going to say that the Gate-to-Surface thing has been/is being intentionally messed with.

 

You can't go to the surface no matter the way you use or to be more precise nobody returned. but space? nothing prevents you to go with gates or spaceship if you have the technological means.

[Albert]

You can't go to the surface no matter the way you use or to be more precise nobody returned. but space? nothing prevents you to go with gates or spaceship if you have the technological means.

What if you don't open it to pass through yourself but open it to let plasma in from the other side, you can conjure creatures and let them through, why not let something very hot and lethal through.

 

I think one of the biggest problems would be the distance.... Unless you send a focus item into space headed for the sun that helps you increase you gates distance and stability.

 

It would probably be incredibly difficult to pull off even with the best training and tutors. Might need an Academagia Space and Gates program... which with the inclusion of gates would be illegal

 

But if it worked it would likely be the most destructive weaponized spell in the history of magic. Just don't loose control of it or it might do more damage than intended... You would want to gate in enough fusion plasma to vaporize the whole world. Any material can be vaporized into gaseous form if heated enough.

 

I'm probably thinking far to big here....

[Albert]

One thing I had some problems with in regards to Gates, is that we're told that teleporting long distances is hard for beginners, but we can still summon things from other worlds?

 

I'm guessign they arn't worlds orbiting other stars but some kind of parralelworlds or dimensions? That's actualy really close in a manner of speaking, just around the corner of your eye. Or something?

[freespace2dotcom]

Teleporting is not quite the same thing as Summoning, or even regular Gates travel, as I understand both use portals.

[Albert]

I don't think those things have been described in-game.

 

Granted, it's proscribed and students shouldn't have it.

 

Shortrange teleport/gates. Long Range, summoning.

 

A shortrange teleport or gate shouldn't be as dangerous as longrange or summoning something.

I can definately see "Summoning" something as far more dangerous and moraly sustpect than teleportation.

 

That Sphinx adventure when getting the crown(likely a worthless piece of crap of statueonamentation) for example.

Anyway, back to the case, after summoning using incantation the smog to make it harder for the guards to see you or what was going on, you coudl use Gates. I kind of assumed I would use gates to get past the guards or somewhere near the sphinx..... But it was a summoning action to summon an exotic monster to scare the guards away.

 

I would have loved to have two gates chocies there, the summoning of an extremely dangerous creature(intentionaly), or a gate/teleport out of there option.

 

Also, I realise that in that situation it would likely have been as efficient to Glamour up a scarry smokemonster given that the only thing you need to do was scare the guards. It would even have seemed a lot safer for the character to use a glamour for that so you don't get stuck with a real "monster" that's hounding you.

 

Gating in/summoning a monster seems like an action when you really want to hurt others and don't care for consequences or personal safety..... A less malevolent Gates option as an optional solution(escaping while hidden in the smog) and maybe a glamour option for that Sphinx Adventure where you create an illusonary beast.

[isadorbg]

One thing I had some problems with in regards to Gates, is that we're told that teleporting long distances is hard for beginners, but we can still summon things from other worlds?

 

I'm guessign they arn't worlds orbiting other stars but some kind of parralelworlds or dimensions? That's actualy really close in a manner of speaking, just around the corner of your eye. Or something?

 

Teleporting for long distance is very dangerous and not only for the beginners apparently the chaos factor make it very hazardous.. unless you're an Oursouk mage

[Xandran]

Summoning is way easier than teleportation because summoning doesn't involve moving yourself. Through an extremely dangerous Gate. When it's basically fairly common knowledge that the only mages who know how to safely teleport are the crazy ones who live in the desert. Dragons can do it but I haven't convinced one to tell me how yet.

 

Also Negation is an extremely broad pillar but it has its own dangers. Mostly involving trying things that you really shouldn't. Like Negating someone's existence. Don't do that. Just blow them up or something.

[isadorbg]

 

Gating in/summoning a monster seems like an action when you really want to hurt others and don't care for consequences or personal safety..... A less malevolent Gates option as an optional solution(escaping while hidden in the smog) and maybe a glamour option for that Sphinx Adventure where you create an

illusonary beast.

 

 

Like i said in the suggestion thread:

 

i don't think you really knew what you would summon.

That's another downside of Gates actually even you master the pillar enough to properly summon a creature you might have unexptected consequence like this creature carry an illness that might cause a deadly plague or it might go berserk etc..

 

 

Summoning is way easier than teleportation because summoning doesn't involve moving yourself. Through an extremely dangerous Gate. When it's basically fairly common knowledge that the only mages who know how to safely teleport are the crazy ones who live in the desert. Dragons can do it but I haven't convinced one to tell me how yet.

 

 

Indeed.

 

 

Also Negation is an extremely broad pillar but it has its own dangers. Mostly involving trying things that you really shouldn't. Like Negating someone's existence. Don't do that. Just blow them up or something.

 

 

All pillar are broad, again i already had this debate in this very thread .

 

What makes Negation so special is the power a Negater has against other mages. We already know that it was the Negation Masters who were at the forefront in the last ban of Mastery/Gates to hunt down those "illegal'' mages (i also remember that Negation could be also used to locate and find mages or magic even in other dimension! and access it maybe). Which is why i believe Prof. Briardi is present so much in the adventures (the only regent i think that play an active role in non college and non classes specific adventure even other college specific like the Vernin keystone) because of the importance of Negation in dealing with magics.

 

To sum it up: One Pillar to Negate them all.

[freespace2dotcom]

I think the reason behind briardi's importance in Y1 is to show how important she is to the Legate and foreshadow her potentially becoming legate as if orsi gets screwed over by sixt. I'd like to have somebody to help become the new legate outside of Rupprecht.

[Metis]

The Regent of Aranaz ,scheming to overthrow the Legate, having to work around the Legate's second in command who happens to be the Regent of Durand.

 

Holy damn, that is going to be a giant mess.

[Albert]

Negation seems to be really good for advanced studies.

 

Hummm, Negate someones existance.... Would that work? Would it create temporal paradoxes? Sounds interesting!!

 

Why play around with Gates and mastery when you can collapse the reality of the universe using Negation! Prepare to get Negated!

 

EDIT: As for Sixt, I don't think he is Legate material, but he's probably a decent professor in his own areas of expertise. He probably lacks the broad knowledge desired in a Legate of the Academagia.

 

It might not be nessesary, but I think it woudl be desired to have someoen with a broad knowledge of all things taught at the school. Briardi seems skilled at Negation, very skilled from what was shown in the adventures. But we don't know what her skills are like in the other areas of expertise. But at least she seems to have some expertise unlike the Vernin Regent or nevermind Godina Regent(unless you count atleticism).

I think the Vernin Regent is a jack of all trades with his expertise in social skills and economics... It might make sense for a college with such strong ties to the merchants guild and crafters... It's kind of the money machine fo the Academagia.

[Schwarzbart]

Theoretical Negating the existence of someone would work but there is so fare no Mage that have reported of such a deed but there story's that mages tried to do this have erased them self instead of their target.

[Albert]

Theoretical Negating the existence of someone would work but there is so fare no Mage that have reported of such a deed but there story's that mages tried to do this have erased them self instead of their target.

It's also possible, that noone remembers the sucess, because the victim never existed... Kind of makes the victory seem hollow, but the enemy or obstacle to your ambitions would be gone(even if you can't remember it afterwards).

 

The ones who failed might have negated someone that saved their life earlier during their life...(sometimes without them knowing it, like causing a distraction that made sure you were delayed from a lethal accident) causing a paradox, meaning, they can't cast the spell if they are already dead, and so the spell backfired and deletes the caster.... Dangerous magic... So, yeah, crazy but it coudl be fun messign around with timeliens and existance itself.

 

Maybe that would work better on the puppetmaster, seeing as it's of another world... though erasing all those Gates accidents might cause some serious changes in the world that could backfire on the casters existance...

 

Why don't we just proscribe Negation aswell? Seems dangerous!

[Metis]

I personally doubt Negation magic is so powerful you can Negate parts of history and cause it to retcon itself.

[Albert]

I personally doubt Negation magic is so powerful you can Negate parts of history and cause it to retcon itself.

Probably not. But that's what I usualy think of when it commes to removing someones existance without actualy killing them.

 

I guess you could try and negate the bond bewteen molecules(the weak bond) and make them evaporate in front of you... Maybe... Might require some "_natural philosophy and or Brewing aswell".

[Metis]

Interesting idea, but I don't think Natural Philosophy/Brew is enough to learn about molecules, figure that everything is made of the stuff and try to kill someone by way of a magical disintegration spell.