Just cant be evil

[thezooqueen]

I try to make an evil character, but it never fails. I always end up the hero of the school..... OTZ

[Metis]

Yeah, that's quite a common theme for practically all games where you don't explicitly play as the villain. As for myself I would have added "evil" routes to a few of my adventures, but...they don't...tend to work. Either it ends with the PC accomplishing less for equal amounts or more effort than they would on the not-evil path or it ends with the PC being so monstrously evil that the team would never accept it.

 

I think most Familiar adventures have good/neutral/evil paths, though, so there's at least that.

[thezooqueen]

I have lots of evil artifacts now. But I am basically undetectable. I could carry a corpse as a backpack and Orso would probably still give me a thumbs up!

[Schwarzbart]

Problem is that adventures for a pure evil char have to be different from the one of a good char. I.e. would a evil char help someone in need? No for sure not unless it looks like the gain for helping is fare bigger then just direct exploit the weakness in some way.

So we can play someone who don't care for the law or knowledge seeker at nearly all price but that's not necessary evil.

[Albert]

Can't you be the evil that's bidding your time, while collecting artefacts and learning to become more powerful.

 

It also depends on what type of "Evil" you're aspiring to.

 

1. Greedy selfish evil that uses everyone around them to further themselves and uses dirty tricks and plots.

 

2. Immoral experimentalist with no boundries on what they would do for more power and knowledge.

 

3. World conquering Wizardemperor, Perhaps using Mastery on Dragons and Generals to accomplish your goals, aswell as summoning more creatures to do your bidding.

 

4. Psychotic maniac that mostly revels in inflicting pain, traumas and suffering onto others.

[Albert]

A character with evil tendencies would do best by staying unnoticed outside of normal bullying while learning how to get better at being a powerful wizard. It's a 5 year education. It would be a bad idea to cut it short.

 

If you get caught being anything less than an ideal student with lawful magics, offer services and assistance to seem helpful and harmless. Unless you got the power to erase the witnesses memory. Glamour seems to be very effective at mind blanking witnesses. If that fails, Mastery might be even more invasive.

 

It all depends on the power of the witness compared to your own.

 

Most people will assume you're just an innocent kid. Which is probably for the best when you're 12-13 years old and just beginning to learn you skills as a wizard.

[thezooqueen]

I just figured there has to be a reason to have to abilities of Gates, Mastery and skills like spy and espionage. It would be nice to have some darker routes to follow. Even in character creation you have the option to set yourself up to follow a darker path. It would be nice to actually do something with it. Other than just be a bully who can pointlessly control people and summon blood tarantulas. I am not trying to sound like I am complaining. It just would be nice to see these skills and spells put to use more regularly if possible. Maybe I missed it, but I have not had a chance to use Synchronicity since I completed that adventure chain. It is a shame because good or bad that is a cool spell.

[Metis]

The reason Gates and Mastery aren't often used is because the spells are illegal, and particularly for Mastery because it's fairly difficult to hide it if you resort to using them...story-wise, at least, not as much mechanics wise. Pretty sure Y2 will have more opportunities to use those spells...and more opportunities to regret doing so.

 

Sync, on the other hand, has the added downside of only having been introduced in DLC 16 and being pretty limited with what a Y1 PC can do with it, particularly an evil-minded PC given that the whole "empathy" thing doesn't lend itself well to anyone who's of a less-than ethical mind, so there's not a whole lot that could be done with it. A PC that goes through An Outing... might be a year ahead of where s/he's expected to be, skill wise, but that still puts her two or three years away from being able to start practising what Leene shows a trained caster can do. Well, in theory. It wouldn't be the first expectation the PC can surpass, and I doubt it'd be the last either.

[Dreamweaver]

Well you can play as a bit of an anti-hero. Some of the adventures/events allow you to act like a complete douche bag, or with various levels of lacking empathy. Not strictly evil I guess but definitely not a good person either.

 

Depending on the motivations behind your actions you'd really end up only being a Designated Hero, who is mostly a hero by coincidence or convenience.

 

I often enjoy playing characters as villainous (and power-hungry) as possible in games and while you can't really have any evil plots of your own (unfortunately) you can sometimes do some pretty ruthless/selfish stuff. Some of it is pretty hilarious like with Marc Sury, if you have high enough Composure to pull it off.

 

Besides if you are aiming to be a Villain with Good Publicity you'd be better off keeping your antics to a minimum, and even if you are a Tom Riddle-type you'd still be mostly biding your time for now. Mastery may be awesome, but it's impractical to use it so close to so many skilled wizards.

 

That said, I think it would be awesome if there were some adventures with perhaps a "(evil)" at the start of the name so you don't pick it accidentally and have it feature some sort of scheming or plotting. Then it could have more skill options and feature illegal magic because you already know what it's about.

[dyrhet]

A little moral ambiguity in future years would certainly be welcome. I know that on my main Durand character, I've prioritized doing good but also having little to no respect for the law. When I read that most Year 5 Durand students do their final project assisting the Minetan guard I was mildly horrified. My character would have zero interest in helping out cops, haha.

 

But then in a game like this I suppose options kind of exponentially increase the amount of content you have to provide so.

[Metis]

Be careful with what you wish for.

[isadorbg]

Well I don't think that a 12-13 year old should really be evil.

 

Now you can play someone selfish, greedy, power hungry, manipulative or even a bully. You may miss some adventure (by taking the not "my problem/finish adventure option") but you can still roleplay the "it's in my interest to play the good guy".

 

You can't roleplay a murderer, thief or other very evil persona but frankly if you could at 12 your character would really be one great psycho.

[Metis]

I actually was working on a Y2 adventure with a planned Evil path where the 12-13 year-old PC could run into a pair of young adults trying to elope together (read: guy and girl's love exceeded sense, "accident" happened) and, in order:

 

-Blackmail them into buying the PC's silence.

-Tell on them anyway for the reward offered for information on their location.

-Frame a first year for that betrayal (not unreasonably, due to the circumstances involved).

-Go to male young adult's mentally unbalanced father (short version is that the man's wife recently died, and he's not taking it well) and lie about being send to collect the reward money in the first year's stead, collecting it in his name and keeping it for yourself.

 

From there on it's less clear as I never even got to the planning stages beyond that point...but the Evil path would have continued with the PC realizing that the man was loaded financially, the PC creating some sort of distraction (either by figuring out why the couple tried to elope and telling on them...or figuring out the boy's agreement with a nearby fey to restore her lake in return for, eh, "preparatory biology lessons" and telling on him), and while that situation devolved into nothing positive the PC would sneak off and steal some suitable amount of riches right under the disfunctional family's nose. Alternatively the PC would approach the couple and convince them that s/he really didn't tell on them, and further convince them that they should "borrow" a suitable amount of cash from the boy's father so that they can just get on a boat and leave the island entirely. The boy would indeed try that, and the PC would have the option of betraying him, again, and if all went well steal the money away to recollect for him/herself later while framing the boy for the theft and getting another pat on the back for his/her "great help". The kicker after all that would be that the girl's "accident" would have been shown to be rendered irrelevant in the worst way possible, for which she'd blame the PC, and one way for the PC to maintain his/her innocence (besides lying) would have been to point out that that "accident" never happened in the first place - the girl had contracted a stomach infection that rendered a large part of her digestive tract non-functional, and when her body stopped getting a reasonable supply of nutrients she...misdiagnosed the resulting symptoms - which while doing nothing to make the PC any less guilty would succeed at temporarily driving the girl insane enough where she's not in a position to question the PC, so s/he's off the hook regardless.

 

Yeah, when I said "so monstrously evil that the team would never accept it" I wasn't joking. Still, is that Evil path the level of Evil you're looking for, thezooqueen?

 

And for the record, the good path involved the PC setting the two up in a slightly shady but reputable enough inn while s/he seeks out the boy's father to determine if he really is so unreasonable that eloping is necessary. The answer to that would have tentatively been "not necessarily", and a bit of working with the nearby fey later (namely keeping up the boy's part of his bargain) her now mostly lifeless pond would have been restored, the boy's father would have been able to finalize the preparations for realizing his late wife's dream (opening a restaurant/theatre hybrid business), and with that off of his mind he'd be approachable (read: sane) enough to let his son and servant (the girl) come back no questions asked and with a promise of no unreasonable demands made. Of course when the PC goes to relay the happy news the stomach infection is figured out, as well as the implications thereof, but they're at least able to go back home.

[thezooqueen]

That sounds pretty fun!!! I could come up with tons of dark/evil plots hehe. The trick is it should be a snowball effect. start with something small with the end storyline being truly evil. 8D

[Metis]

...Ahah. A 12-13 year old doing that sounds pretty fun. Ar'right. Duly noted.

 

Well, if you can make adventures out of such plots you can always take a shot at the Writer's Corner...though I'd recommend writing adventures for Y2. It's tricky, since information on Y2 is pretty scarce, but Y1 is pretty full up on adventures as is. As for me you're not likely to see too much Evil stuff, I don't find it especially fun to type and I can never figure out why going the evil path is more profitable - heck, sensible - than the good path more than half the time.

[Dreamweaver]

I think I'd like to write some stuff for year 2 but there's no point until it gets released or we get real info on the mechanics.

 

As for evil plots I can often find a reason why a selfish path would lead to a better result for you, usually a real person wouldn't be evil for it's own sake but to obtain something. At any rate "evil" is just a word, in practice it'd involve exhibiting all sorts of unsympathetic traits to maybe qualify in the end. I just want opportunities to display excessive ambition and stupid pride. It could also lead to trade-offs where you screw over a classmate to get what you want, with a resulting destruction of the relationship, maybe with tailor made feuds and some of the self-proclaimed hero students starting to target you in events.

 

At least I think there could be some adventures which were really just schemes to obtain some sort of advantage, doesn't have to be evil really, just morally ambiguous with the option of trying some immoral solutions possibly with a game over screen if you fail.

 

Also Isadorbg there are many opportunities to either be directly a thief or take stuff that plainly isn't yours.

[Metis]

It's...possible, but yeah, trying to work around mechanics you have to show but have no idea about is frustrating to say the least.

 

True, but in my eyes the evil path always ends up being so risky and/or difficult to accomplish that good, honest work ends up being just plain more efficient in comparison. For that exact reason, in fact. Burning down a bridge and getting other people on your case for it because you want to get all the glory just...doesn't work. How many people haven't forgiven Reitz for trying to pull exactly that stunt, anyway? I don't plan on doing more than share a dorm room with him and yet he's on my list of students I plan to see "removed" from the Academagia.

 

Pretty sure there's a few Aranaz adventures that are pretty much that. Well, minus the game over screen part.

 

Isn't there a literal Steal action or something? Something Sleight-of-Hand related?

[ronikai]

Yep, Aranaz is the best college if you want to blur the line between what is good and bad. Although in Aranaz's defense, it tends to happen in a more... Academic way. As pursuers of knowledge the line between good and evil is virtually nonexistent.

 

As for my "evil" character, I tend to follow DnD's Lawful Evil mold. I also like to see my young un' as a morally ambiguous child that is being set on a path they don't really see yet. My charrie is a hero to the school with a sizable amount of glory points (for y1), but with a large amount of evil artifacts (like zoo). I like to think that this is my charrie being mischevious, but at some points they cross the line into the "evil" spectrum. I think that the adventures are the way they are due to 1] There is a lot of writing involved and 2] The game would have to choose various different end of year explanations for all of your evil choices. Also, at some point Orsi will figure that stuff is crazy wrong with you. I always put my illegal knick knacks away, but if anyone looks into my secret chest the praetextia will hang me for sure!

[Metis]

Aranaz, in my experience, doesn't blur the line so much as willingly ignore it when it's convenient for them to do so. It's true that knowledge alone is no more inherently good than it is inherently evil, but those who pursue it to further their own goals above all else aren't going to make a good case for that.

 

I never really play evil characters. My "normal", nominally good characters are morally unbalanced enough that an actively Evil character of mine probably would never have been invited into the Academagia to begin with. Part of the reason why Evil options are few and far between, beyond the writing effort, I imagine. Eventually people are going to find out you're fifteen kinds of crazy and morally broken, and that would no doubt result in a game over.

[Dreamweaver]

I think your mind is just too innocent then, Metis. At least unless you believe evil has to be of the Stupid Evil kind. In a sense I have no interest in playing an "evil" character, I just like playing someone who is a borderline villain. I think most situations could be handled more beneficially by a morally indifferent person than someone restricted by the rules. On the other hand if you don't understand what's morally right you'll alienate everyone, but if you understand without feeling it you can pick the optimal path, potentially keeping risks to a minimum.

 

Typically people are selfish because it clearly benefits them in a measurable way, being good usually doesn't have much advantage beyond feeling good. Most selfish acts are rather unofficial or doesn't harm one of your friends directly. When you start harming people comes the difference between a clever and a stupid villain, a clever one will know not to needlessly antagonize people "just because".

[Metis]

"Too innocent" isn't something I've often heard, though I suspect it's a fair assessment nevertheless. I don't believe that Stupid Evil is the only kind that can be truly called Evil, or that it's the only kind of Evil that exists, but I find that it often boils down to it. Even if it doesn't harm one of your allies, even if it isn't traced back to you, it'll always do something, and whatever it did will exist. Something is always lost, a risk is always gained, and while the results may benefit you more so than it's losses that may not always remain true. Not that being a slave to tradition is much better, nor is being a slave to whoever will use opportunity because you didn't, but I'm never willing to risk situations changing in a bad way.

 

Unnecessary harm is actually where I draw the line between evil and not evil. Of course I'd never classify any measure of personal benefit as "necessary", so for most that's a fairly screwy line regardless.

[ronikai]

There are two adventures that come to mind after reading both of your comments. The one with Rui where you half join his group and choose between fixing the lunchroom food, or adding the rest of the purple mixture that will drive everyone crazy. That was one of the first times that I made an actively "evil" choice. This wasn't one of my usual "Oh, I'm just studying Master and Gates on a purely academic level" or "Listen, I wasn't hurting you, I merely mastered you so you would give me what I want, understand?" This choice was going to hurt people, badly, and I still did it. On my "Yes I am absolutely evil and I WILL dominate all of the world and everyone in it one day" charrie I made that choice. Also, when gaining a certain speaking book I made the choice of torturing the bullies, instead of just letting them go with enough intimidation in their systems to never bother me again. Rune (Mr. Evils name) made the choice of seriously hurting everyone in the cafeteria, and those bullies.

 

The second adventure I think of (and I am fuzzy on the details) is the one with the three men in that strange alley. I could have done what was right, and NOT drank that liquid, but Rune being the bastard he is drank it. Not for knowledge, not for any experiment, but just for the reason that he thought it would be funny. This ultimately led to a creepy-as-all-heck ghoul thing coming to life. Somewhere along the line, that choice will bite Rune in the bum. He just let out some OBVIOUSLY EVIL thing out into the world. It WILL hurt someone somewhere. What makes Rune so evil is that he doesn't give it a second thought and goes right back home to sleep.

 

Orsi most likely keeps tabs on all of the students somehow, making sure that their mischievousness doesn't give way to something more sinister. However, there has to come a time where Orsi and the other professors make a move on such students, and don't just expel them because of some prank (looking at you Gera!). I've mastered a LOT of people in the adventures. Even if there were other options that were completely green for me, I chose to master them. Orsi has to realize that I'm something terrible waiting happen at some point.

 

Yet all he does is praise me... Perhaps he is more evil than I thought? (Oh, and Zoo, I saw your signature. Team Starkid FTW!!!!!)

[Albert]

This reminds me, that Synchronicity Adventure, if you reject the mark they say they will send a letter to the Praetexta court about your characters "Mastery" knowledge.

 

Maybe an optional adventure or exit would be to intercept that letter and erase it, or manipulate it.

Having them inform the world seems so finite and absolute. Just a thought. Your new "friends" would still know but everyone else doesn't need to know yet.

[ronikai]

Oh, that's true! Plus, with your knowledge of Synchronicity, maybe you could even trick others into thinking you got the mark? Or you could just use Mastery on them and copy the mark onto your own wrist using glamour.

[Metis]

This reminds me, that Synchronicity Adventure, if you reject the mark they say they will send a letter to the Praetexta court (I think it was) about your characters "Mastery" knowledge.

 

Maybe an optional adventure or exit would be to intercept that letter and erase it, or manipulate it.

Having them inform the world seems so finite and absolute. Just a thought. Your new "friends" would still know but everyone else doesn't need to know yet.

 

Perhaps a "Plot" exit. Resulting in a "Raid" or "Infiltration" on the mail delivery, which ever type that might be. Perhaps some magic as well while you're at it, or Forgery.

Absolutely, completely, undeniably, positively, utterly, 100% impossible. I could type out a whole story here but the short version is that it's not possible for the PC to continuously intercept the letters from three fully-trained mages and their Familiars (two of which are birds, one of which is nocturnal by nature) without one of them realizing and calling forth the pain train. If it seems like a finite and absolute conclusion it's because it's a finite and absolute decision.

 

Using Sync to trick others into believing you got the Mark is utterly impossible if not impractical, due to the PC needing someone's total cooperation to even try something like that, and it'd be a really finicky thing to do with Sync anyway. Sync really isn't good for creating memories from nothing, Mastery is much better for that, but a first year's understanding of Mastery simply isn't enough to actually do that, and by Y2 it'll be far too late.