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Albert

Crazy Wizards and Drgons with "reliable" Gates magic...

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Could it be that they got a skill that allows them to percieve other planes and the Leylines in ways that others can't? Which allows them to somehow compensate for certain factors that only they can see.

 

This might also make them appear mad to other people if they are talking to or reacting to events and beings others can't see because they are on other planes..

 

Ducking without reason, laughing to a joke relayed in Another plane or someone elses missfortune that the people around them can't see. Worst case, adressing someone who isn't even in the same plane.

 

That would make sense, then they wouldn't actualy be mad, just percieved as mad to the uninformed.

 

In that case, maybe, willpower could help you focus on your reality, Dispassion Control emotional outbursts that would be socially inappropriate.

Composure could help you retain your dignified movements and avoiding to react to every extra planar event around you.

 

It would probably be as extreme a skill set as Synchronicity and maybe as rare or even more so.

 

Planarphysics

Subskills

Planar (alternate realms/planes)

Spiritual (spirits, Ghosts etz...)

Demonic (Demonic knowledge, for using and/or avoiding demonic involvement)

Leylines (the magic field that crosses all the realms and planes....)

 

Something like that maybe?

 

Possibly related to geometry just as economics/accounting is related to Arithmetics. The Leylines could certainly be somewhat geometric, aswell as possibly planes of existance...

 

A dragon might be used to it and therefor would be able to handle it, a person might break if they arn't extremely strongwilled and able to dismiss that which isn't relevant to them. Dispassion/Composure.

 

Once you learn that skill set the World will never look the same to you...

Thinking of one of those SG1 episodes where they start seeing centipedes and other creatures that arn't there as they use an experimental cloak that partialy shifts them into Another dimention... Couldn't find the video on Youtube... Kind of disconcerting seeing such things every day...

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If their minds is (partly) in another plane than their body they are certainly mad in my book or high not sure about the difference when it is permanent tough. :P

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I agree alone to see the one additional layer of existance (like the spirits of recently decased) would make the person act like a madman for people not seeing it.

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There is the slight issue that Gates magic used to be fairly stable in the past. It doesn't rule out that some sort of extra-planar sight might allow you to compensate for whatever is causing the issue however.

 

I subscribe to the theory that some sort of seasonal cosmic event (spanning decades/centuries) interferes with gates magic to varying degrees, which is why it will suddenly be safe to use again and legalized but then become increasingly unstable and eventually banned again. Over and over again.

 

How much Gates-related chaos/instability does the player have the chance to encounter anyway? As I remember it was surprisingly stable, maybe it's no longer as dangerous as when the ban was placed.

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Or, more likely, the Team decided that the player's casting of Gates magic in Y1 does not have the accidental ability to bring forth the bubonic plague simply because it would ruin the story. Expect the really nasty side effect stuff in Years 3+

 

I also think that even in Y2 we will find some horrific (and occasionally humorous) backfires, just not on a large scale.

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I remember the Legate commenting on the (lack of) Gates casting-related chaos in Y1 somewhere in the Q&A topic.

 

Key word "somewhere".

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It would be interesting gameplay trying to balance being somewhat crazy and seeing things, and pretend you don't, because you are trained to be as emotionless and expressionless as a mountain unless you decide to express something for a "reason".

 

Then when the World really goes mad around you start wondering if it's real or not...

Roofs are getting torn off, people are screaming and running every where. The city is set aflame. And you're just standing there pretending you're getting bored by the lack of interesting goingons.

 

Orso Orsi: Hey! Can't you see that legion of demonvampire/dragons heading this way? We better move!

 

Player: Oh, I thought it was just Another of those crazy things that only existed in my mind...

 

Orso Orsi: We might have to take you to the campus shrink after this is over...

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There is the slight issue that Gates magic used to be fairly stable in the past. It doesn't rule out that some sort of extra-planar sight might allow you to compensate for whatever is causing the issue however.

 

I subscribe to the theory that some sort of seasonal cosmic event (spanning decades/centuries) interferes with gates magic to varying degrees, which is why it will suddenly be safe to use again and legalized but then become increasingly unstable and eventually banned again. Over and over again.

 

How much Gates-related chaos/instability does the player have the chance to encounter anyway? As I remember it was surprisingly stable, maybe it's no longer as dangerous as when the ban was placed.

 

The Legate is pretty vague about it but for what I understood it's been instable for a long time.

 

It has been banned several time because of it but the neither Legate nor the game's lore hint about a cyclical instability apparently the last unban was because of political reason.

 

Also there is one race in game that is unaffected by the random factor: Dragons.

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The Legate is pretty vague about it but for what I understood it's been instable for a long time.

 

It has been banned several time because of it but the neither Legate nor the game's lore hint about a cyclical instability apparently the last unban was because of political reason.

 

Also there is one race in game that is unaffected by the random factor: Dragons.

Well it's not specifically mentioned, but it's vague in a way I interpreted as implying it.

Examples:

 

Freespace;

 

In the early Empire, the wizards knew the secret of 'perfect' Gates magic. Most (legal) Gates Items date from that period, as the random factor is definitely not nullified in modern Gates enchantment. Those secrets have since been lost, and it's not clear why. You are correct about Mastery. wink.gif

 

The names of the monarchs are entirely stylized. smile.gif

Adrian and Freespace;

 

All magic has some volatility, but in other Pillars the risk is usually related to a mistake in drawing the Phemes or the Border. In Gates, the actual magic itself appears somehow to have an element of risk and randomness which cannot seemingly be removed, no matter how proficient you are. On the other hand, Oursoukan mages do not seem to suffer from this problem. Historically, Elumian mages also seem to have been able to do away with this risk- but the how and why has been lost to history.

 

As to why...well, you would have to ask *them*. smile.gif

 

It does not address the Oursoukan mages, who appear to use a modern solution of some kind but clearly the ancient Elumian mages, like the founder of the Gates college were able to do fairly reliable spells, also I seem to remember reading a lore entry about Gates where it's implied to be stable (done correctly at least).

 

It may indeed be a skill that is simply lost, but I figured something as important as that does not simply get forgotten while the the rest of the skill is remembered, unless it was reserved for only an elite few (and the students still had instability).

 

So it would make sense if "something" happened that people didn't understand and over time it's boiled down to "we forgot how to do it".

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Well:

Adrian;

Teleportation is almost unknown in modern Elumia, although more ancient wizards had access to some means of instantaneous travel. Those spells were lost during the days of the early Empire during an early ban on Gates magic, and subsequent research has not been able to recover the technique in any form that is not of great bodily risk to the teleporting wizard.

The wizards of Oursouk, south of Elumia, to this day are able to teleport- but they are few in number, and do not associate with the wizards of Elumia except in battle.

 

 

 

This post heavily implies that loss of knowledge played a big role into Gates instability or at least in the teleportation field.

 

But it is not a stretch to imagine that the repeated Ban further eroded the following generation's knowledge of Gates with similar results than teleportation.

 

I also should add that the Early Empire is a looong time ago. Before the Exile if I remember right ? If right that means that Gates instability is perhaps thousands of years old.

 

 

Another interesting post:

Although I can't go too deeply into it, the way that Elumian Wizards understand Gates to work is inherently dangerous. Most Gates practitioners are loathe to teleport within Elumia, because the risk of disaster is quite high. Ouroukan Wizards seem to know the secret, and are able to teleport with greater (near 100% success), but their minds have been shattered since the Cataclysm of Monteon, and thus do not often impart their methods. wink.gif

 

 

 

Which also imply that at least initially the Oursoukan's solution did not made them mad as a cost but their madness is due to the Calamity.

 

Tough I think that make their knowledge useless as I seem to remember that even new Oursoukan mages become mad if they learn that magic but I'll have to check.

 

 

http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=1221&p=7755

 

 

I have to say that personally I think that the Chaos Factor is both due to a deep lack of knowledge by the modern mages of Gates and also because of another factor that made the magic very unstable since.

 

My theory is that the Chaos Factor is linked with the Exile. Remember that it is impossible to descend on the ground because of some Draconic magic by anyway possible not even planar travels.

 

Such complex spatio-temporal altering magic surely had repercussion on THE Spatio-temporal Pillar: Gates.

 

Nowithstanding the fact that only one race is immune to the chaos factor AND this Spatio-temporal Barrier: DRAGONS.

 

Coincidence ? I do not think so.

 

 

In general tough I would not underestimate the amount of knowledge lost with time. I think the legate said that even the "regular" pillars had lost some since the old times.

The Mage's reluctance in sharing knowledge surely played a great deal.

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You make a compelling point, I'm still not quite willing to discard my theory but you are probably right that it is just forgotten knowledge. It would have to be advanced knowledge to get forgotten, so instability must have been present for novice mages.

 

The Spatio-temporal Barrier responsible for keeping the islands aloft may well be the interfering element to Gates magic, but if it IS, then it's still possible to circumvent the problem if you are sufficiently skilled as the ancient mages who could were living after the exile. So it's not an inherent dragon ability as such, just that all the dragons are skilled enough to compensate.

 

I'm pretty sure the Monteon mages were capable of controlled Gates magic (I feel like I've read as much, but I'm not sure), until they blew their island out of the sky that is. Maybe whatever foolish thing they did affected the barrier to some degree, worsening the instability.

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Certainly, I can't comment on this *too* much, but... the early mages of the Empire seemingly had little or no issue with the instability, and it arose over time. The Dragons are definitely immune, and the Oursoukan mages are the only known men who can cast Gates magics without risk. Of course, they are insane. ;)

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Given that Gate magic is the Legates favorit magic in Academagia I suspect our player chars will have a way to learn gate magic without the problem of the to random factor.

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To me Gates seems the most magical of abilities, for travel, summoning and de-summoning....(maybe the later is just a teleport that thing from here kind of deal...)

 

Also, that Hedi quest seemed to sugest there might be a newly discovered pheme that's similar to the teleport pheme that actually affects time and could facilitate actual timetravle.... That accident seemed nasty though.

 

Teleportation and gating around as a form of travel certainly seems interesting. It's just that unfortunate random factor that needs to be fixed.

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Gate is also creating of creatures not just summoning acording to the story we play trough if we have the Secret Background

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Gate is also creating of creatures not just summoning acording to the story we play trough if we have the Secret Background

You don't need the background to learn about that, it's described in the lore. The Blood pheme and several others creates the building Components for several creatures.

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Certainly, I can't comment on this *too* much, but... the early mages of the Empire seemingly had little or no issue with the instability, and it arose over time. The Dragons are definitely immune, and the Oursoukan mages are the only known men who can cast Gates magics without risk. Of course, they are insane. ;)

It would be interesting to learn what kind of insane they are.... I can think of so many types of insane that it would depend on the measurements used.

insane is often a social judgement that could be based on just about anything, from an opinion, political or personal values or eccentric behaviour to being raving rabid mad/insane.... in different ways..

 

insane, mentally ill, lunatic, mentally deranged, unsound

insane, mad, lunatic, moonstruck, crazy, mad, nuts, insane, bonkers, touched

insane, mentally ill, mentally deranged, insane, unsound

idiotic, imbecile, Futile, insane

 

Often some kind of psychological dissorder... Which Could be percieved as such compared to "normal" people.

 

Really, it's hard to get a good Picture from that description...

 

Autistic? perhaps Savant like?

 

Conspiration theorists that Believe there are demons and aliens and all kinds of vile government people around the corner and perhaps even inside their mind spying on them... Enter the tinfoil!

 

Someone walking about screaming at inanimate objects or the empty air?

 

Or mad as in irredemable criminal and dragonworshipper who's shunned by society by association and beliefs or choices in Life.

 

Just playing around with a proscribed type of magic often seen as unsafe that earns you the deathpenalty at worst could likely earn you peoples condemnation as insane, in and off itself I guess.

 

Now I'm starting to wonder in what way, exactly, the Oursouk mages are mad.

Exactly what I've been wondering the whole time ;) Given that people can differ they might even have slight variations.. of insane.

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To be fair, isn't the sanity of dragons questionable by human standards?

 

Also I think the question was technically asked before.

 

Well, there *IS* a large scale of madness. What level are we talking here?

Emmett Brown level eccentricity? (mild)

Nikola Tesla? (Woudn't touch round objects)

Howard Hughes? (germophobe and saved pee bottles)

Giovanni Aldini? (Corpse "reanimator")

Vladimir Demikhov? (Two-Headed Dog Surgeon)

Robert J. White? (brain transplanter)

Caligula? (Made his horse one of his senators)

The Joker from Batman, the animated series? (I don't think it explicitly said he killed anyone)

The Joker from the Dark Knight movie? (definately killed people)

VLAD THE IMPALER? (toooooo long to say here)

Freespace;

Haha, this a great list. smile.gif

I'd say, Caligula minus the political authority. They are insane, and definitely dangerous to be around. wink.gif

So I guess the mad/crazy type of insanity. Possibly questionable morals as well.

 

On the other hand, Caligula may not have been as insane as history claims. As I understand it he only threatened to name his horse senator, as a way of mocking his fellow aristocrats by comparing their intellect and importance. Essentially flaunting his absolute power with a cynical joke at their expense.

 

By that standard most dragons are quite insane as well. They do arrogant power-plays and typically delight in cruel plots for plain amusement. So the legends claim at least.

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Caligula was deliciously insane and insatable imo....

 

He certainly knew how to make a lasting impression. His torture and mockparties were legendary. Raping the wives and daughters of senators and other aristocrats, sometimes maiming/killing them.

 

His home/Palace was kind of a torturehouse/slaughtery.

 

Spent massive amounts of Money on his parties and the two luxury yatch barges he built in that tiny Little Vulcano lake... 2x 60 or so meters long, couldn't really travel anywhere due to the size of the lake(puddle)...

Didn't want to eat anythign that wasn't sprinkled in gold... Seriously, that's not even appetising or healthy for your digestion system, thoguh, apparently the orders for that gold sprinkle crap was apparently placed.

 

He declared war on Posseidon, marching several legions all the way to the British channel, with the men thinking he was going to invade the brittish isle. When they got there he asked each and everyone of them to put a seashell on their head.

Then he declared victory and returned home where he had a huge victory parade planned where he announced that he had defeated posseidon and declared his divinity.

 

He was fairly shortlived, his own guards grew weary of him and killed him.

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He ate dinners with his horse in the dining hall, he deffinately loved his horse.

 

His real name was,

Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus

 

In dinners he would tell Senators and other guests about his rape maiming/killing sessions with their wives and daughters. He kind of held some of them hostage as I recall.

 

If that's the type of insane, then I guess Rabid dogs is the description. Usually you put those down...

 

Psycho, American Psycho, insane catlady(with horse affection), chainsaw massacre, Jack the Ripper, and lots of crazy people all rolled into one.

 

 

So, if Caligula is the measuring stick, then "insane" sounds like far to weak a description.

 

Apparently he was quite ugly aswell but that doesn't really serve a Point here....

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An interesting, if...disturbing point of reference. Still, that begs the question whether the Oursouk mages are aware of the fact that they're "insane" or whether they've also lost their ability to recognise it.

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