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The 2015 FORBIDDEN Magic Discussion!

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I've noticed that instructors don't have inventories, too.

 

I more or less know there's a repository somewhere, based on the Legate's cryptic comments. It's just whether it's tied to a location where you get items in the end of day report, or else, it requires a specific action to be used in a certain context. The legate also said it's very obscure, so I'm betting it's not so simple as just picking up an item in the hall of records. (Though I did try that) I even tried using the gift spell on the offending instructor, but alas, they aren't targetable. ;) I could just imagine what would have actually happened if you tried such a Mastery spell on them and got caught, hahaha.

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Using a specific action in a specific location? Yeah, because that's something people are going to ever find out.

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Ugh, I know. But if it ever does get figured out I *know* we're all going to slap our faces and say it was totally obvious.

 

So obvious it took us like 4 years and counting to find it so far.

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At least personally, I don't think so. Using the pie on the Yeti in King's Quest V (IIRC), now that has some slight stretched-to-breaking-point degree of sense to it. But whatever we need to do to get confiscated items back? I don't think so.

 

EDIT: I've tried to figure it out through my own special "why the hell would anyone even think to try this?" method, but no dice. I got nothing.

Edited by Metis

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I haven't given up yet but I'm done trying for now. It's not important enough for me, as in my saves I still have all the items I accumulated. If somebody doesn't beat me to the punch I'll probably find it eventually. Especially in future years as we get access to more stuff.

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Tomorrow's yet another birthday, and still no notable sign of Y2, or its progression. Based on early repeated optimistic remarks, I figure Y2 has got to be really, really close to finished by now. I suppose part of the delay is the whole steam thing, and I can understand. Its just depressing as few of us seem interested in posting as most everything that can be discussed in context of Y1 has been for some time.

 

I'm starting to feel that 2015 is going to slip away.... and honestly, its frustrating. I'm sure it will be out, and I know your, well.. Repeated... incorrect predictions on Y2s release are a bit of a sore spot amongst the team, but honestly, I think that I would prefer that to complete silence. You surely know that my sigi was merely a soft poke you, Such is the inevitable human response and certainly not hostile but a way to vent the ever rising tension of waiting for long periods of time.

 

So be frank, please. Regardless of whether it happens or not, Is it within the realm of conceivability that we might get Y2 this year?

 

Also, I love this forum's autosave feature in case of browser malfunctions. It saved me a lot expressive heartache when I didn't have to retype this post again due to a crash.

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Free;

 

Oh, I've a thick skin. I'm not averse to poking. ;)

 

It's a possibility, but I think Y2 is more likely to come in 2016, especially after our recent product council at the Comic Con. Just my opinion. ;)

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"That, and I recently picked up this book about pattern recognition and I have to say..." ;)

 

What product council at comic con, though? I haven't heard anything about it.

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Just what we need. More possible delays -_-. Something that I most certainly didn't make myself guilty of by recently re-installing Daggerfall while I've got like 3 adventures in the works or anything, oh no. Totally not. That was for...research, yes. Academagia definitely needs more Void. And running into Daedra Lords at level 3. Clearly.

 

Remember when I said that I've played Atlus RPGs that were easier than Academagia's early game, because the former at least gives you a chance? Well, let me tell you which non-Atlus RPG doesn't...

 

...

 

...Could visiting a Void possibly be an effect of Gates magic? Thinking about it that actually sounds like it'd be awesome. Mind-breaking, but awesome.

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Just what we need. More possible delays -_-. Something that I most certainly didn't make myself guilty of by recently re-installing Daggerfall while I've got like 3 adventures in the works or anything, oh no. Totally not. That was for...research, yes. Academagia definitely needs more Void. And running into Daedra Lords at level 3. Clearly.

 

Remember when I said that I've played Atlus RPGs that were easier than Academagia's early game, because the former at least gives you a chance? Well, let me tell you which non-Atlus RPG doesn't...

 

...

 

...Could visiting a Void possibly be an effect of Gates magic? Thinking about it that actually sounds like it'd be awesome. Mind-breaking, but awesome.

Sounds like it would be a good way of hunting down anomalies disrupting Gates magic.... Invaders from Another realm who are massing their forces in pockets in between. Just waiting for the right moment. Or maybe their emperor died and noone told them so they're just hanging around awaiting orders :P

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Say, legate:

 

Realistically, I think you've said that beyond a 4 or so in illegal skills one would need to practice the spells, and phemes in order to get better.

 

Even the Meagan and Aron episode showed practicing in ones own room, although, curiously such magic was never traced until several weeks after things went bad for Aron, so we've got to assume that things went on for at least a couple of months. Since you're obviously not going to tell us how the spell was traced even though the magic use wasn't obvious, I have to ask if practicing such spells in one's own room is such a good idea.

 

I'm really wondering just how hard it will be to become truly good at the proscribed arts. Not only with materials to learn from scarce, people able to track spell usage, long term magical residue buildups, possible infinitely terrible spell backfires, and unhealthy relationships with people who might kill you if they suspect you're going to blab, yeah, I think you're going to have to put in a lot more effort to be good at Gates or Mastery, but I can understand why somebody who had mastered both would be considered frightening. To say nothing of skills in other magical areas.

 

Legate, I know you're going to give me a funny look, but Arithmancy has uses in the proscribed pillars, too, doesn't it?

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So, while looking around for a Mastery spell/action/something that required you to be Informed of the target (I swear I saw it like a dozen times recently, but now that I need it!) I came across this little description of the (as far as I know unobtainable ingame) Liege of Mastery spell:

With a successful, difficult Intelligence/Mastery Phemes Roll, you can Increase your Intelligence by 2, and Increase all your Mastery Subskills by 4 - even if that takes them above their usual Maximum. Unfortunately, you'll also do yourself 2 points of damage, and reduce the Bond of Iron between you and your Familiar by 1 Step. The temporary effects last for three days.

While Mastery was deemed destructive because wizards were manipulating the human mind, there is another secret about this proscribed school. Sometimes a Mastery spell is so powerful that even the wizard casting it is not strong enough to withstand its energy. You can be left completely exhausted...or worse. But if you have an enemy that’s out to destroy you, casting Liege of Mastery is certainly worth that risk.

 

So, hey, that's a thing. BTW, there's signs that point to this spell being from (relatively) early development, so, grain of salt and all that.

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It also requires the infamous fugue pheme? Wow! With that and Puppet Master, I think somebody on the team was having far too much fun writing powerful Mastery spells before they realied that they needed to pad out 4 more years of material.

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That, or they forgot that lore-wise Mastery 10 isn't as complete a collection of knowledge as, say, Incantation 10. And yes, Phemes are Absorb, Diction, Fugue, Modus Operandi and Pierce.

 

...Actually, scratch that theory, I just took a look at Puppet Master. Yeah, That's...that's a thing. Hopefully that sentiment won't be a problem for me later.

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Actually, Mastery and Gates 10 really are equivalent to the legal pillars at 10.

 

It really makes you wonder, since going up to 10 in any pillar is something a kid could do by self teaching. There are enough lores to support this, even in the forbidden stuff. the only real difference I can see between legal and illegal is that you're more directly encouraged to be good at the 'black' arts because casting them is always a potential life or death situation.

 

Even so, clearly the Mastery writers were ambitious. These spells were never taken out of the game because the odds of somebody acquiring these spells in game is remote unless you are literally dedicated to the illegal stuff from the start of Y1.

 

I got a 10 in Mastery and Gates in one playthrough, and I'm thinking that that probably puts me in the rare situation of having more knowledge in them than any kid would possibly be expected to in their first year. It's probably why you can get away with skulking about the forbidden section and get nothing but detention in Y1.

 

Regarding Mastery, I think it's kind of a jip that you don't get the order pheme until Mastery phemes 11, because it takes so much to get to 10 for all subskills that again you really need to set out to specialize in Mastery in order to get phemes to 11 on top of that. I'm fairly sure I'll pick up some more Mastery related material in Y2, so it's really not something that I'm worried about. (I'll probably get at least a skill of 12-13 in the base pillar skill and unlock the advanced skills for both illegal magics in my 'main' save.)

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Actually, Mastery and Gates 10 really are equivalent to the legal pillars at 10.

 

It really makes you wonder, since going up to 10 in any pillar is something a kid could do by self teaching. There are enough lores to support this, even in the forbidden stuff. the only real difference I can see between legal and illegal is that you're more directly encouraged to be good at the 'black' arts because casting them is always a potential life or death situation.

 

Even so, clearly the Mastery writers were ambitious. These spells were never taken out of the game because the odds of somebody acquiring these spells in game is remote unless you are literally dedicated to the illegal stuff from the start of Y1.

 

I got a 10 in Mastery and Gates in one playthrough, and I'm thinking that that probably puts me in the rare situation of having more knowledge in them than any kid would possibly be expected to in their first year. It's probably why you can get away with skulking about the forbidden section and get nothing but detention in Y1.

 

Regarding Mastery, I think it's kind of a jip that you don't get the order pheme until Mastery phemes 11, because it takes so much to get to 10 for all subskills that again you really need to set out to specialize in Mastery in order to get phemes to 11 on top of that. I'm fairly sure I'll pick up some more Mastery related material in Y2, so it's really not something that I'm worried about. (I'll probably get at least a skill of 12-13 in the base pillar skill and unlock the advanced skills for both illegal magics in my 'main' save.)

That forbidden section contains several other "forbidden" or tucked away things that don't have anything to do with Mastery or Gates, like discarded experiments of other pillars that were deemed too dangerous or a semifailure that could be dangerous, there is even botany experiemnts, curses and enchantments, knowledge and what not, in there that don't have anything to do with Mastery or Gates.

But they were tucked away for being inappropriate or for professors and advanced researchers only(for the safety of the students).

Some of the things there might just need some more work or research to be made safe and mainstream, but until someone "authorized" researches them and manages to fix the issues or solve the mysteries, they are tucked away, but referenced and stored in case the faculty needs it at some point.

 

It's all there in the case of an emergency, upon which I'm sure the Professors/facutly and others involved whoever they might be, decides the knowledge might be needed to solve an emergency or further research for whatever reason.

 

They probably prefer to Think you were looking for some other inappropriate thing in there. (Who would be stupid enough to look for Mastery and Gates stuff that isn't part of their class and which they shouldn't know about, especialy when it commes to a 1st year, more likely looking for a forbidden enchanted bubblegum or candy recipe)

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Some of that none gates or Mastery stuff could probably be fairly interesting, but might requier a lto of skill in whatever field it is. Maybe you will find Asmita in there looking for a forbidden hidden recipe, to beat her competition in a cooking Contest...

 

The Recipe might have been tucked away because it turned the people eating the meal into some kind of "special food" addicts..

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Or turned people purple. ;) Look out for the one eyed, one horned purple people eater! ;)

 

...I dunno. I think all of those things are in the *restricted* sections of the library. The forbidden section is a separate beast, and as far I can tell only holds Gates and Mastery knowledge.I sorely doubt anything magical and unsafe deserves to be placed next to Gates or mastery. Except *maybe* that branch of Negation that negates magic itself, and that's a maybe. Truth be told I'm quite sure that Gates and Mastery knowledge needs to be in a wholly separate place from those other things you mentioned simply because others could innocently (or not so innocently) stumble upon that stuff. It has to be segregated from the rest of the dangerous stuff because it's on a whole other level, which is in the Law. other magics would be not used more to policy decisions from the faculty only.

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Quote from Venalicium Adventure 06 main text:

 

You hang your head in disappointment as you leave [Orsi's] office and decide to head back to the library to check the Forbidden Archives- if Professor Vickery was trying to find a cure for Darmila, maybe you can find something that will help you. The map room is still in disarray so you spend an hour sifting through different blue prints and maps, eventually finding one marked "Forbidden Archives". Your stomach sinks as you realize there isn't just one Forbidden Archives section, they're spread all throughout the library. How will you know which one to look in first? You a rustling outside the door, "Hello?" No answer. You shrug and go back to the issue at hand.

(from the mod tools, so the "you a rustling" bit might have been corrected already)

 

And after passing a Library Knowledge check:

You decide to spend a little more time searching for a more detailed map of the Forbidden Archives. After about an hour, you find one marked "Vickery"- that has to be it!

 

You draw yourself a map and head out to find your friend a cure.

So not only are there apparently multiple Forbidden Archives, there's professor-specific Forbidden Archives.

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Actually, I hadn't really read that adventure in a long time. I would have sworn that that was part of the restricted sections.

 

Man this is interesting. This implies to me that there might be a lot less Mastery and Gates knowledge in the forbidden section than I had initially expected. Perhaps all the really terrible books really did get burned and all that was allowed to be kept are minor commentaries and references of banned materials, allowing you to piece together a skillset of 10 or so, which is something that you should be allowed to do on your own, anyway....

 

Oh, dear. If so, there goes one plan for the future... Oh, did I say that aloud? hehe... Oops, Nothing to see here.... :)

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For reference, The Venalicium Library: Restricted Section location is described as such:

Visiting the restricted section of the Venalicium Library can Expand your skill with Satyric Revelry and Insults by 1 Step.

The Venalicium Library is one of the greatest repositories of knowledge in Elumia, rivalling the famed personal collection of the Duke of Ceada, or the public Library of Pievre. Yet even the personal collection of the Khediva of Saisyne cannot compare to the magical knowledge housed within the Venalicium. Since the founding of the Academagia, the knowledge of the whole of the Empire has always been housed here. But not all books are available for general use; and the librarians often keep treatises on specialized subjects apart. There are many such works which have been deemed wildly inappropriate for younger students. These books are housed in the Restricted Section, and a careful watch is put on it.

 

And The Venalicium Library: Forbidden Archives is described as such:

The Forbidden Archives at Venalicium contain some of the worst secrets of bad years past; if you care to decrypt a few of them, you can earn a Skill Step in a random Mastery or Gates Subskill. Note that these lines of study are forbidden by the Academagia and outlawed by the state. You could be expelled for using the techniques hidden here - you could even be killed.

Ducking your head into the Forbidden Archives and skimming over the titles contained here is more than enough to give you a hint about where to look in order to find out more about a subject. For example, you may know that there are pickpockets in the world who will try to lift your purse when given a chance, but there’s a difference between knowing this fact and knowing how to exploit this fact. Seeing the book entitled “Famous Cutpurses in Academagia History, 461-617” will tell you enough that you now know where to look in order to learn more. The title “Mastery Rhymes and the Phemes they Describe” could tell you where to look in order to start learning the Proscribed School of Mastery. The list goes on, but one should be warned; this room is called the ‘Forbidden Archives’ for a reason, and with 23 librarians wandering around, there is slightly better than a 1 in 10 chance of being caught and punished accordingly.

(Actual base discovery chance is 17%, so "slightly better than 1 in 10" is a less than accurate claim)

 

At least in the mod tools, but yeah.

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Haha, I think they meant, "slightly better than one in 5" then, but in truth, In my attempts to get something confiscated in order to find out how to reclaim it, I did notice despite my choosing to use "study gates" and "study mastery" 3 times a day for intentional reprimands, it did take several days to get a detention, so, maybe that's actually accurate despite the modtools.

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