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Ah, Thanks Legate and makes sense. As said before Canada did enter on it's own, but makes a lot of sense to group the Commonwealth Nations together under the Brit Banner. For simplicity's sake if nothing else. :D

 

AK you have to remember that we Canucks gotta take the good with the bad, or the silly. Even the little humors are better than being totally ignored (that would probably distress me a bit more, Curse you Hetalia, Curse you!). I admit it'd be neat to have Canada as it's own nation, but It's not essential, since we'll have a Canadian Belle or two in the Commonwealth armies. On a personal note, I expected to start off under the British banners (cause For Commonwealth!) and just put whatever Canadian Belles that are in the game front and center of my Fleet.

 

That's my plan anyways, with games that have much more going on underneath sometimes you gotta do a little finagling and use headcanon to have things work. Makes the most sense sometimes too. Maybe down the line Canada will be unlocked as a nation ^_^ Gotta remember VB has to be made and released first and then with luck have 'er hold water before we ask for more to be put more on her.

 

I think that's the most troublesome thought currently. I expect some great things from BCS and VB, but we have to make it to release and success (or sustainable following) first.

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I always loved this bit by Jim Carrey. So much 90s as well

 

 

 

Great post Pillwalker! You're amusing me to no end today. First Thunderchild from Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds, and then that. My hat's off to you sir!

 

I aim to please :)

 

canada_teaser_by_mysticbynd.gif

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AK;

 

Oh, I thought that had been answered: Canada (and Australia) serve under the RN. There are Canadian Bases and Belles, but it's not a separate Nation.

 

That may change as we go forward, but they aren't an unlockable Nation thus far.

 

Nope, but now it has. That's the same thing 'Victory at Sea' did, and I felt bitter about that also. From my POV that's just awkward with me wondering what's happening with Vancouver & Halifax. Makes me hope that in the future Canadians shall liberate themselves to be their own when enough Belles drop from the list I populated, among others that I may have missed. That's what I'm hoping for at the least. As you said, we'll see what the future holds.

 

And I hope it does change in proper time. Just one proper game with them..... :unsure: [insert emoticon with tear/water drop on the side of head, anime style]

 

-------

 

 

Ah, Thanks Legate and makes sense. As said before Canada did enter on it's own, but makes a lot of sense to group the Commonwealth Nations together under the Brit Banner. For simplicity's sake if nothing else. :D

 

AK you have to remember that we Canucks gotta take the good with the bad, or the silly. Even the little humors are better than being totally ignored (that would probably distress me a bit more, Curse you Hetalia, Curse you!). I admit it'd be neat to have Canada as it's own nation, but It's not essential, since we'll have a Canadian Belle or two in the Commonwealth armies. On a personal note, I expected to start off under the British banners (cause For Commonwealth!) and just put whatever Canadian Belles that are in the game front and center of my Fleet.

 

That's my plan anyways, with games that have much more going on underneath sometimes you gotta do a little finagling and use headcanon to have things work. Makes the most sense sometimes too. Maybe down the line Canada will be unlocked as a nation ^_^ Gotta remember VB has to be made and released first and then with luck have 'er hold water before we ask for more to be put more on her.

 

I think that's the most troublesome thought currently. I expect some great things from BCS and VB, but we have to make it to release and success (or sustainable following) first.

 

Yup. That, and declaring war a few days earlier on the Japanese also :P. But I guess, with how the whole world views us that I'm just forced to go along with it until the game settles down & such. Having to set the foundation to then have everything else roaming freely. Again, it's what 'Victory at Sea' did, and I did feel offended by that, then gradually let it be while seeing that game itself struggling with updates, even currently when posting this. It's painfully slow to update with each update. Makes me wonder what's going on in the back-end, and if they even have any more updates. Still much more for that game, as with this one.

 

Ya, even when forced that I have to find some neutral-common ground, or something. Both with 'Victory Belles' & 'Victory at Sea' forcing me to be content with what I'm seeking in naval games that I feel like I have no choice but to take what I'm given. I'm even lucky HMCS Saguenay was selected, and I still feel that aura of paranoia if HMCS Skeena shall join, among others. Even the 'Trio Navy', and the two cruisers. More so now than before. I guess I'll indeed go the German route until they flesh out the RCN, if they ever do, because that's the way my three starting Belles shall push me. Whenever Canadians gain their focus (again, from that list also) I'll jump to them to train them up, and then mess about there that it's hopefully from either Halifax or Vancouver.

 

Ya, done a bit of that [headcanon] where my Japanese navy in 'Victory at Sea' was chased by HMS (HMCS) Haida in the Pacific, a symbol ship I wanted to acquire in my previous campaign. I was chased by my own Canadian comrades T_T. Never fought, yet it was awkward being chased by HMCS Haida with another ship in her grouping. I believe I have a picture of that still, yet was a highly odd encounter that it has that slight touch of 'betrayal' to it.

 

Again, waiting up on VB to continue progressing. They advertised it, so I'm expecting great things from BCS for VB. Also didn't help I saw a couple mentions of 'Canada' & 'Halifax' in that Surcourf update. That feels like torture to me reading that, yet being unable to command Halifax, nor Vancouver with my own. Maybe in time, but pre-release is just making me both cringe & groan in pain. That patience is something I need to regrow. I had lots of it, yet doesn't help I've burned through my own patience reserves for these sorts of games.

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Alright, I'm now cursing at myself for allowing two videos to slip my attention, even to post in this thread. One is about the glorious Haida, and another about the HMCS as a whole, if generalized.

 

HMCS Haida National Historic Site of Canada

 

 

I love the music in the HMCS Haida. Lovely Canadian-British style music which inspires from the Canada's east coast.

 

Royal Canadian Navy during The Second World War

 

 

 

It sadly doesn't mention either HMCS Uganda, nor HMCS Ontario. Uganda served in three campaigns, & as an AA/Radio platform at times. Ontario was too late. I'm also amused Skeena & Saguenay being mentioned at the start, and a nice 'crash course' of our naval history.

 

Alright, now that feels much better posting these two videos. I once again have Haida's tune stuck in my mind. :wub:

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Alright, I'm now cursing at myself for allowing two videos to slip my attention, even to post in this thread. One is about the glorious Haida, and another about the HMCS as a whole, if generalized.

 

HMCS Haida National Historic Site of Canada

 

 

I love the music in the HMCS Haida. Lovely Canadian-British style music which inspires from the Canada's east coast.

 

Royal Canadian Navy during The Second World War

 

 

 

It sadly doesn't mention either HMCS Uganda, nor HMCS Ontario. Uganda served in three campaigns, & as an AA/Radio platform at times. Ontario was too late. I'm also amused Skeena & Saguenay being mentioned at the start, and a nice 'crash course' of our naval history.

 

Alright, now that feels much better posting these two videos. I once again have Haida's tune stuck in my mind. :wub:

 

Heh I know what you mean. That song sticks with you. Not many ships have a song made for them.

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Neat video, yet he forgot to mention the navy's role this time around. Something always being forgotten. That, and we had quality air ace pilots, one of whom had to be killed by betrayal and sabotage in the post war. That same ace pilot is featured in Strike Witches expanded universe.

 

George Beurling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Beurling

 

Strike Wtiches universe: http://strikewitches.wikia.com/wiki/Elizabeth_F._Beurling

 

Pixiv art: http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=31256847

 

Beer the best? Nah, it's like water. If it's for a casual drink, sure. It's neat. We Canadians don't know how to make beer. We think we do, yet don't. I guess you'd have to stay with whiskey, and the harder stuff. Better drink the actual booze from Europe if you want legit booze on any spectrum. Even from USA you'd have to look towards Europe. Try Zlaty Bazant, Kozel, or even Cuba's Havana Club. Even Borovika from Slovakia heh. Justin Bieber? He can burn alive for his arrogance & stupidity. Those mittens though, they gain the most respect.

 

I'm genuinely surprised we Canadians were given credit for co-liberating Italy because in the history books USA kept taking that glory, and us Canadians shoved to the side like pieces of crap. One documentary mentioned how hard we Canadians fought to then be side-lined, then USA just waltzing in Rome as if they did all the hard work. Part of where my bitterness comes from, and after reading HMCS Uganda's denial of Canadian identity. That reminds me that we Canadians had 2-3 maps, when you count the Italian expansion to Battlefield 1942. Again, having to bring up my curiousity if we Canadians shall be respected in Battlefield 1, or if we'll be given the 'expansion treatment', similar to 1942.

 

Thanks for the video! And once again listening to Haida's tribute music. :wub:

(Edit: Seems like I'm in a better mood to take jokes today. Checking out the videos posted before actually getting a laugh.)

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He specifically said they aren't going to cover the battle of the Atlantic in that episode because this is a "Crash Course" on the history of WW2, not an in depth one.

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He specifically said they aren't going to cover the battle of the Atlantic in that episode because this is a "Crash Course" on the history of WW2, not an in depth one.

 

 

Neat video, yet he forgot to mention the navy's role this time around. Something always being forgotten. That, and we had quality air ace pilots, one of whom had to be killed by betrayal and sabotage in the post war. That same ace pilot is featured in Strike Witches expanded universe.

 

And he has to cover pretty much every part of WW2 in that amount of time he has allotted, so he probably (been a while since I've seen it) references it briefly. There is a segment in the vid where he does talk about Canada, more than a number of US Documentaries, so AK should be happy about that at least. It's an overview. The series is called Crash Course. They never go too indepth because that's how they do the vids.

 

Also being in Strike Witches doesn't make one a famous pilot. I respect the Canadians who fought in the Battle of Britain, but being in a show which is (at least in my opinion) more about gratuitous panty shots than anything and tries to deny that it is isn't exactly what I'd use as a measuring stick of fame.

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And he has to cover pretty much every part of WW2 in that amount of time he has allotted, so he probably (been a while since I've seen it) references it briefly. There is a segment in the vid where he does talk about Canada, more than a number of US Documentaries, so AK should be happy about that at least. It's an overview. The series is called Crash Course. They never go too indepth because that's how they do the vids.

 

Also being in Strike Witches doesn't make one a famous pilot. I respect the Canadians who fought in the Battle of Britain, but being in a show which is (at least in my opinion) more about gratuitous panty shots than anything and tries to deny that it is isn't exactly what I'd use as a measuring stick of fame.

 

Wow, you both jumped on me even though I'm aware it's a crash course. Just a simple one sentance of "+ their navy of small vessels cleaning out the Atlantic of German submarines" would have done nicely. Just one silly sentence is fine, yet nothing major or to be picky about. I'm just making note is all, and glad that we did get mentioned. I'm thankful he event mentioned us, even with the Italy mention. That's awesome.

 

And Wellington misread that I hope he edited after that he didn't bother going to the wiki seeing why George Sterling was our Canadian Air Force ace. Even allowing him to appear in Strike Witches on the manga side of things. The manga side of things, not the show. I feel like I'm back to being the sane one now after having my sanity broken the other day :blink:

 

[i'm saying jumped because of that reaction time. Even me jumping back, now forced to make edits.......]

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Wow, you both jumped on me even though I'm aware it's a crash course. Just a simple one sentance of "+ their navy of small vessels cleaning out the Atlantic of German submarines" would have done nicely. Just one silly sentence is fine, yet nothing major or to be picky about. I'm just making note is all, and glad that we did get mentioned. I'm thankful he event mentioned us, even with the Italy mention. That's awesome.

 

And Wellington misread that I hope he edited after that he didn't bother going to the wiki seeing why George Sterling was our Canadian Air Force ace. Even allowing him to appear in Strike Witches on the manga side of things. The manga side of things, not the show. I feel like I'm back to being the sane one now after having my sanity broken the other day :blink:

 

You never said you were aware it was. When you made the comment, it was as if you were ripping on it because of that. Also it wasn't all just Canada so that sentence is incorrect anyways. It would've needed to been "Canada along with America and Great Britain", which even then it was majority the other two, so for a crash course, it's not that important to include the one who didn't do nearly as much.

 

I'm not discrediting him either. Again, your post was pretty much saying to me at least that he was a famous ace because he was in Strike Witches along with other aces. Perhaps next time a bit better wording on your part so people don't misread what you meant to say.

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I'm at home right now, so every now and then I can refresh and read posts. I don't always reply to things. If someone replies to me and I'm at work, then it's usually a bit before I can respond.

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You never said you were aware it was. When you made the comment, it was as if you were ripping on it because of that. Also it wasn't all just Canada so that sentence is incorrect anyways. It would've needed to been "Canada along with America and Great Britain", which even then it was majority the other two, so for a crash course, it's not that important to include the one who didn't do nearly as much.

 

I'm not discrediting him either. Again, your post was pretty much saying to me at least that he was a famous ace because he was in Strike Witches along with other aces. Perhaps next time a bit better wording on your part so people don't misread what you meant to say.

 

Noted. I'm sure I made note of both, but whatever. It's all trivial in the end. I guess I'm now misreading or we're just both being picky now.

 

I thought I worded that properly, then edited it better the next time around. Must have been missed in an edit. Even so, let's take a breather so you can check out the wiki as to why I brought him up then so we don't have another silly venting period again. Check out Beurling in both the real & the Strike Witches universe by checking the two Wiki I linked, and maybe a video on Youtube, if there's one. I remember he scared the Canadians back here in Ottawa with his detailed accounts of his battles that he had to be removed from his speech. He disregarded orders while doing his own thing. Check him out.

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Noted. I'm sure I made note of both, but whatever. It's all trivial in the end. I guess I'm now misreading or we're just both being picky now.

 

I thought I worded that properly, then edited it better the next time around. Must have been missed in an edit. Even so, let's take a breather so you can check out the wiki as to why I brought him up then so we don't have another silly venting period again. Check out Beurling in both the real & the Strike Witches universe by checking the two Wiki I linked, and maybe a video on Youtube, if there's one. I remember he scared the Canadians back here in Ottawa with his detailed accounts of his battles that he had to be removed from his speech. He disregarded orders while doing his own thing. Check him out.

 

I don't really go back and look at posts I've replied to once I've done that to see if they've edited. I'm considered done with the post after I do that. If it's not like that when I quote it and reply, that's all that matters.

 

He's ok, but I personally prefer in terms of a non-British ace Adolph Malan, the pilot who sent German bomber pilots home with dead crews as warnings to Luftwaffe crews, and he made No. 74 one of the best. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_Malan

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How people treat posts, ya. Sadly, one has additional thoughts to add or sees typos after posting so editing is important. I give posts a max of 2 minutes before it's considered solidified in forum postings.

 

And a buzzkill comment. Alright, we each have our own POV so that ruins things for both of us. :unsure:

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How people treat posts, ya. Sadly, one has additional thoughts to add or sees typos after posting so editing is important. I give posts a max of 2 minutes before it's considered solidified in forum postings.

 

And a buzzkill comment. Alright, we each have our own POV so that ruins things for both of us. :unsure:

Don't see how it's a buzzkill. What, I can't like an ace that isn't Canadian more than that guy?

 

To be honest I don't really have that many air aces I know or naval captains/admirals other than the famous ones (Holland, Nimitz, Yamamoto). I'm more ground forces and even then I'm limited in what I know. If I end up getting interested in something, I'll do the research, but more often than not I don't stray outside of my comfort zone. That's why Bulldog was so big for me. You also can't try to force me into being interested in something, especially to be to the point of being obsessed. The Canadians during World War II deserve their praises but unless I end up finding something that piques my interest, I won't do research on it or look up more stuff. That's why I tend to come back to this and I get disappointed because I want to learn about Canadian ships but in an unbiased environment.

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Don't see how it's a buzzkill. What, I can't like an ace that isn't Canadian more than that guy?

 

To be honest I don't really have that many air aces I know or naval captains/admirals other than the famous ones (Holland, Nimitz, Yamamoto). I'm more ground forces and even then I'm limited in what I know. If I end up getting interested in something, I'll do the research, but more often than not I don't stray outside of my comfort zone. That's why Bulldog was so big for me. You also can't try to force me into being interested in something, especially to be to the point of being obsessed. The Canadians during World War II deserve their praises but unless I end up finding something that piques my interest, I won't do research on it or look up more stuff. That's why I tend to come back to this and I get disappointed because I want to learn about Canadian ships but in an unbiased environment.

 

Nah, it's not that. It's our tone on things with this bit - [He's ok, but I personally prefer....] - which I generally see as devaluing his contributions. Not in a rude manner, just that nothing caught your interest so I'm feeling "depressed" also from your disinterest. We're comparing, yet I respect your choice in your ace & similar with my own. It's just the whole wording again. We seem to be on edge about everything that we just can't agree on anything, or so it appears. And I agree that I don't want to force you to enjoy Canadians because that would be patriotic brainwashing. I want you & others to be interested in what you guys generally interested about, not what someone else shoved down your throat. I don't want to force you to enjoy Canada, just wanting to show why they're interesting but feel I'm hitting too many barriers. I've seen so many people fanboy over things they don't genuinely enjoy (Halo was one of them, then other mainstream games + COD because people want to feel they belong somewhere; Tribal mentality), and it sucks & it shows. It's just a simple buzzkill moment still with how flat it sounded. Nothing more, or dramatic about it :wacko:

 

I'm glad you enjoy Bulldog, as well as others with their own Belle. I'd love to see how you'll progress with Bulldog once we gain access to the game. I'm happy my French comrade can relate to French Belles, and Americans with American ones. Same with my Dutch comrade for his Dutch belles, if they're shown in any upcoming update, or similar. I don't want to see you forced to like Canadians because that be awkward. If you see me being biased or frustrated then that means I feel like I hit another barrier, or something similar to such. I'll happily try sharing more, yet I need more material, more interest, & more curiousity from others to be able to share things freely (Context of Others: mostly from Youtube & net stuff; Archives; history sites/resources)

 

And something I just stumbled across. Simple, yet neat.

 

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Nah, it's not that. It's our tone on things with this bit - [He's ok, but I personally prefer....] - which I generally see as devaluing his contributions. Not in a rude manner, just that nothing caught your interest so I'm feeling "depressed" also from your disinterest. We're comparing, yet I respect your choice in your ace & similar with my own. It's just the whole wording again. We seem to be on edge about everything that we just can't agree on anything, or so it appears. And I agree that I don't want to force you to enjoy Canadians because that would be patriotic brainwashing. I want you & others to be interested in what you guys generally interested about, not what someone else shoved down your throat. I don't want to force you to enjoy Canada, just wanting to show why they're interesting but feel I'm hitting too many barriers. I've seen so many people fanboy over things they don't genuinely enjoy (Halo was one of them, then other mainstream games + COD because people want to feel they belong somewhere; Tribal mentality), and it sucks & it shows. It's just a simple buzzkill moment still with how flat it sounded. Nothing more, or dramatic about it :wacko:

 

I'm glad you enjoy Bulldog, as well as others with their own Belle. I'd love to see how you'll progress with Bulldog once we gain access to the game. I'm happy my French comrade can relate to French Belles, and Americans with American ones. Same with my Dutch comrade for his Dutch belles, if they're shown in any upcoming update, or similar. I don't want to see you forced to like Canadians because that be awkward. If you see me being biased or frustrated then that means I feel like I hit another barrier, or something similar to such. I'll happily try sharing more, yet I need more material, more interest, & more curiousity from others to be able to share things freely (Context of Others: mostly from Youtube & net stuff; Archives; history sites/resources)

 

And something I just stumbled across. Simple, yet neat.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KJKB7UmcPk

Not a lot does that isn't in my little circle of things I find interesting. I respect him for what he did but I know there's ones other people can point out that are subjectively or even objectively better. Marseille for one who a good number consider the best period.

 

We don't have to agree on anything to get along so long as we respect each other's choices and don't get obnoxious about our own choices. You can show interest and be prideful without being like that. You say you hate those documentaries about America that get obnoxious about America, and so you tend to be like that and then seem to get confused to why people don't comment or there's barriers. People want conversations, not one person going on a rant. Instead of saying its a buzzkill, you could've asked why I think so, or any number of things to get a conversation going. Perhaps I would change my mind, or maybe you would, or maybe things would stay the same.

 

People are interested in what Canada has done that the history books and documentaries haven't told them. Like Pillwalker's thread about that one ship the Sackville. But that was provided with 100% straight facts rather than some facts and a load of prideful boasting. Once you tone things down, being things back, be, well, normally prideful rather than this over the top prideful you are (which no one else is. Not even Nel and she only gets prideful when she wants to tease me about the Germans), people will start engaging more. You can't expect to have a good conversation with someone who uses only feelings as an argument because you'll always lose.

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Alright, I guess I'm just done with this thread then. Thanks for your POV, much needed, yet I'll now have to take my leave if I'm to keep things peaceful. I'm glad you do know that I'm confused, yet it's also disappointing that it's not fully understood that it's just best I pop off then because I'm just going to be provoking people the more this drags out. Going to be keeping both Victory Belles & UBOOT on my radar though, yet feel everything is just degrading, more so with me here.

 

Apologies for any hostilities on my end, yet that may only go so far with constant misunderstandings.

 

Have fun :)

 

And last one because of HMCS Sackville.

 

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Alright, I guess I'm just done with this thread then. Thanks for your POV, much needed, yet I'll now have to take my leave if I'm to keep things peaceful. I'm glad you do know that I'm confused, yet it's also disappointing that it's not fully understood that it's just best I pop off then because I'm just going to be provoking people the more this drags out. Going to be keeping both Victory Belles & UBOOT on my radar though, yet feel everything is just degrading, more so with me here.

 

Apologies for any hostilities on my end, yet that may only go so far with constant misunderstandings.

 

Have fun :)

 

And last one because of HMCS Sackville.

 

 

Hey, there's no hard feelings on my end. Things just kinda ended up getting lost in translation when put to post. I don't think that you're degrading things, just that there's been lots of errors in communication and whatnot. Maybe taking a break from this thread may work wonders, maybe not, but it's all up to you. And I certainly don't think anything in VB is degrading at all. It's only going to get better as time goes on. I did enjoy what information you did have and liked watching the vids and whatnot.

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I'm hating Youtube right now for being a real smartass right now. I wanted to stay silent because I still view the above comments as envy/jealousy (simple miscommunication) that I'm drumming up my loud pride in response to my American pride that no competition is allowed. I was looking for everything relating to the RCN on Youtube, yet it has to dig it up AFTER everything. After I've looked for Sackville, Uganda, and everything HMCS & RCN. :mellow:

 

Even so, here's a Canadian made movie I might watch sometimes this week of HMCS Kitchener (formally HMCS Vancouver), being HMCS Donnacona in this movie. I've seen neat 'rare' & exclusive RCN related wartime behavior, even how ships were being built. This movie even adding an often ignored, overlooked, & unique viewpoint in Canadian wartime life with the way Canadian ships were being built & with their own silly sense of humour. It is indeed black & white, yet it still shows the beauty of the Canadian navy & their life.

 

'Corvette K-225'

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035757/

 

HMCS Kitchener:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Kitchener_(K225)

 

 

You'll have to patiently wait for the clip to build up to see the "excitement" to board their lovely ladies to take to the rough waters. The bow view, the 'Maple Leave Forever' march, as well as seeing the various equipment being added into the Corvettes. If you can't wait then go to 6:00 min to see the 'HMCS Donnacona' launch & to then see various clips that made me all excited. I want to see more of these war-time shipbuilding clips, among others! I haven't been taught or shown this in my stupid history classes I've been in. Stupid education system we have......Also, the bit at 4 min should have explained why we view ships as woman, yet the guy had to be the 'absent minded fool' in that scene. You can tell which one is awesome, and which one isn't by the vibe, yet the guy flubs it for comical effect. Ah well.......All in good jest, I guess? The Maple Leaf Forever happily plays throughout.

 

Anyways, guess I'll go silent until something pops up on Youtube or something special happens. As Wellington said I need a bit of a break because I'm still in a fowl mood & I also can't obnoxiously compete either :P

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AK;

 

This is the Canadian Pride thread, so, I think you should be as proud as you want to be here. :)

 

For me: Canada is...OK, I guess. What did they do again? They're cold, right? :)

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AK;

 

This is the Canadian Pride thread, so, I think you should be as proud as you want to be here. :)

 

For me: Canada is...OK, I guess. What did they do again? They're cold, right? :)

I don't think any one has anything wrong with people being prideful of their country or whatever country they want. The issue came in when it appeared as if it wasn't possible to have a conversation unless that person also had that level of too extreme pride. It's why I don't like a number of US documentaries, because they get too prideful and obnoxious about America doing everything and being nigh unstoppable. There's also the previous thing where I voiced that while I respected that Canadian ace I preferred the South African, and it would've made interesting conversation.

 

I like Canada. I think the Canadians rightly deserve whatever honors they have gotten for the First and Second World Wars. But I wouldn't say it's something that I would get overly excited about. Even my own pride at the United Kingdom is more muted.

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