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Ninjapacman

Axis Power Ideas

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Since the Canadian pride thread is limiting, and the Minor Nations thread also fails to cover what I need, I have decided to make this. This is the thread where all you Nazis/Fascists/Japanese Imperialists1 can post your ideas for the game and the belles of these nations.

 

 

So please come in and discuss Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan. I'm sure the game developers would love to hear your ideas and suggestions2.

 

 

 

 

 

1: This thread does not condone the ideological beliefs of said Nazis/Fascists/Japanese Imperialists, and is merely for the countries these ideas came from.

 

2: The Game Developers probably have a lot on their plate with making the game as they planned it, so don't be surprised if your suggestions don't make it to the final game.

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I'd love to see U-96 added. 46 confirmed kills over her lifetime. Quite the achievement

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Given that the famous "submarine carriers" of the I-400 class are rather well known, at some place I would like to see one of the Ammiragli-class (also known as Cagni-class) submarines of the Regia Marina.

 

Although they weren't that big (their displacement was of 1703 t on surface and of 2185 t submerged), they were amongst the pinnacles of the "submarine cruiser" concept, a big submarine with heavy armament and huge autonomy to scour the oceans. Surfaced, they could count on two 100 mm (3.9-inch) guns; they had a total of fourteen torpedo tubes (eight on the bow and six aft) of 450 mm caliber (judged sufficient to deal with merchantmen), and this allowed them to carry a total of 38 torpedoes (that could also be used indifferently in both torpedo chambers, thanks to a rail system that connected them). At 12 knots their autonomy was of 10700 nautical miles, that went up to 19500 if the speed dropped to 7.5 knots. Despite their size, they were found to have reasonable maneuverability, they were stable at sea and their abitability was excellent. Their original conning tower design was modified during construction to a size and silhouette similar to the German submarines.

 

Four were completed, named after illustrious Italian admirals: Ammiraglio Cagni, Ammiraglio Caracciolo, Ammiraglio Millo and Ammiraglio di Saint-Bon; more were planned but were never laid down.

 

They were designed to be able to reach the planned base of Chisimaio (Kismayu) in Italian Somaliland from Italy, circumnavigating Africa. However, when they were completed, their size and huge cargo load (some 140 t) led them to be employed in supply runs towards North Africa (apparently on the direct interest of the Chief of General Staff, General Ugo Cavallero), in which three of them were lost.

The only submarine that was assigned to the role for which it was designed was the Ammiraglio Cagni, albeit late in the war (arriving at the Atlantic base of Bordeaux in February 1943); therefore it performed only two missions (of which the longest, having lasted 137 days, set a record for permanence at sea of an Italian submarine), the second of which was interrupted by the Armistice. During this experience, however, only two ships were sunk, and another (the auxiliary cruiser Asturias) was damaged.

Having reached Durban in South Africa, the Cagni returned afterwards to Italy. As the remaining Italian submarines were scrapped after the war (save for two), the conning tower of the Cagni was preserved and is currently kept at Taranto as a monument to Italian submariners.

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that's pretty cool HN! :D

 

Are there any documentary films in English regarding Italy 's navy?

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that's pretty cool HN! :D

 

Are there any documentary films in English regarding Italy 's navy?

 

I'll look for them, but I doubt I can find any that are not... well, a bit old-fashioned, if you get my meaning.

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I understand. I just am always interested in learning more. Been watching WW2 Docs to and from work for a while now.

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This is more of a roleplay idea *cough* buwhynotgameplaymechanic *cough* ....

As metioned over here in the forum, I know pretty certain about two culinary naval traditions in the Axis powers of germany and japan.

The japanese tradition is to serve every friday カレーライス (karee raisu; curry rice.... no real curry involved). So the sailors always know it's friday. Kare raisu is known to the japanese through the british during the meiji-era shortly after 1868.

The german tradition is to serve every thursday cake. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Cake. Kuchendonnerstag exists for the same reason but on thursday instead. And with bloody cake! I laughed hard when a former navy petty officer told me about it, since he is tall, muscular and moody. I pictured him to sit in the canteen with a small piece of cake and a delicate cup on the side. And he said it has been around since the early 1900's. The cakes served may vary from ship to ship and can sometimes be simple or pretty sophisticated, depending on the Smutje (chef) and the mood or occasion.

Sadly historynerd was forced to let me down on this topic regarding the italian navy. The spaghetti tuesday I metioned in the above linked post is something I heard about in the german army and the italians were quoted to do it to fraternise with their EU and NATO allies in one of the more quiet missions. So I don't know if they do it at home or in other countries as well, let alone in the navy. But I will pretend they do anyway. XD

I think 1) I have now provided all fellow axis captains with a small piece of athmosphere for all RPGs on said ships and 2) we have now absolutely shown to be culinary superior to the allied scu.... navies.

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Since this is an idea thread, I kind of direct this point to the most honoured Legate:
Football is already a very big deal in 1939 in germany.

 

Heck we only didn't finish(!) the season 1944/45 with the Allies invading german soil and several teams unable to play due to... well their stadiums were literally occupied... the Northerners (Hamburger Gauliga) are the exception. they finished the football season. Last game was 15. April 1945 (three days after my hometown was liberated/occupied). The Hamburger SV won the Gauliga 1945. Since all other teams were eliminated by allied forces... well they kind of are the national champion of 1945 (just kidding).

Also the game was already organised and played straight the next season 1945/46. Just adjusted to the fact of a non-existent nation.... so we played zone-championships! 1945/46 only in the french and the american sector, but the other zones had other forms of cups. The first national championship was held in 1948 (the soviet champion was barred by the soviets from competing). One year prior to the foundation FRG and GDR respectively.
You can kill us, you can occupy us, you can divide us or whatever. But no matter what the circumstances WE PLAY FOOTBALL!!! 

That said:
Everyone should take into consideration the enormous footballpower of the 1.FC Nürnberg in the 1930's. The ship Nürnberg will probably will be pretty proud about it and at the same time conflicted about a certain club from the ruhrgebiet whose name I can not state here for religious reasons. Because her beloved nazis favour that club over her's. 

Kölns football history is somewhat ... complicated at the time VB is set.

And why Scharni and Gneisi will proooobably be in the right teams corner I will explain, when Gneisi shows up for interview.

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The only ships that were not present in the game were two Deutschland-class pre-dreadnought battleships Schleswig-Holstein and Schlesien. Their lack is a little strange. And especially Schleswig-Holstein I hope that this is not political correctness in the game Victory Belles.

Schleswig-Holstein fired the first shots of World War II when she bombarded the Polish base at Danzig's Westerplatte in early morning hours of September 1, 1939.

For us Poles both ships have no good fame. But several times got hit from Polish artillery  bullet in 1939, causing them to panic.

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A pole in the Axis thread? Pilsudski, is it you?

I wouldn't call "landing ~250 marines on the Westernplatte and steaming off for resupply" a panic. Or which artillery hits did you mean?
But yes, part of the german army and navy were truly surprised to see the poles fight back that hard. 

14 hours ago, Shirogane said:

For us Poles both ships have no good fame. 

And while I totally get the infamy for S-H, what is the deal with the Schlesien? Why did she became unfamous in Poland?

 

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Just a little bit interested in german ships the Kriegsmarine, but the more your U-boots and german ships under the Polish flag.

September 27 "Schleswig-Holstein" 05:05 left Gdansk and went to Orlow district, from where. 11:57 he opened a fire from the tower A to the battery of the helskiej. Between the fourth and fifth openings at 12:01 am, the battleship was hit by a 152 mm Polish coastal defense guns.cockpit with a 150 mm round-bottomed casemate. There were 3 wounded sailors and 4 cadets in the stern washroom.


A description of the inhabitant of Gdynia, one of the worlds of battle

Many inhabitants of Gdynia saw the artillery duel between the cruiser SCHLESWIG-HOLSTEIN and our coastal defense battery on Hel. The cruiser fought the sailing of the port of Gdynia. At some point - you can see at the command of the commander - small craft in the distance. They set up a smoke screen. I felt that something must have happened when the ship hid from the visibility of our batteries. As it turned out, one of the Our bullets fell through the ventilator into the cruiser. The bullet hit the manned room near the hospital. The explosion triggered a large destruction within the ship killing and injuring many crew members. In this state of affairs the battleship with our battery no longer continued.

Schlesien at the sight of the shot and hit Schleswig-Holstein escaped from under the firing of the battery of the Hel  coastal defense guns.

 

Why did  Schlesien she became unfamous in Poland?

1. Shooting of civilians fleeing to and from the Hel Peninsula and Polish soldiers.

2.  Shooting to civilian Polish cities on the coast where there were no troops and hospitals despite the visible white flag red cross.


But you do not read about it in the books and monographs of the ship.

 

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Better polish than bolshevik. I also think you should aquire them quite easily, being stationed between germany and sovietunion. Even if your mainally will be the UK(oGBaNI).

The whole Kriegsmarine operations around Hel were hasty at best. Think about the destroyers who faced Wicher and Gryf and broke off after they received only minor damage.
But in their defence: The Schlesien and the S-H were bloody old and the destroyers were only there for recon.

Do you have some readable sources about those Schlesien civilian shootings? Just curious. I only know of shelling the Hel peninsula after it was cut off on Sep 14th. Also shooting polish soldiers? Kind of every german in the area did it, right?

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According to Marshal Pilsudski's rule: "Better to balance than fight two fronts".

The whole defense of the Polish coast was improvised. If the Polish naval ships had done in the Rurka plan. All three German destroyers would have entered naval mine and flew into the air. In the same place where Wicher and Gryf attacked.

General cases about Schlesien civilian shootings were fired on the peninsulas of the Hel Peninsula and caused panic and forced the end of the fighting by civilians. What have they done, but have been captured by the military authorities on Hel and ordered to hide civilians in dugouts in the woods and not to return home.

Between 18-23 and 25-27 September both S-H and S fired on the Hel Peninsula trenches, Polish artillery posts, field hospitals and civilians dugouts.

7 hours ago, Admiral Korky said:

Kind of every german in the area did it, right?

Yes, but so especially the Luftwaffe, who threw bombs at everything.

There are a lot of written relations Polish civilians and soldiers from Hel Peninsula.

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15 hours ago, Shirogane said:

According to Marshal Pilsudski's rule: "Better to balance than fight two fronts".

The whole defense of the Polish coast was improvised. If the Polish naval ships had done in the Rurka plan. All three German destroyers would have entered naval mine and flew into the air. In the same place where Wicher and Gryf attacked.
[...]

Yes, but so especially the Luftwaffe, who threw bombs at everything.

[...]

The sejm didn't find the memo after his death apparently. I always speculate about a tradeoff of the Danzig Corridor for the Memelland, after nazi-germany bullied it away from Lithuania. But that's just me.
 

It was improvised? Poland was prepared at land (partial mobilization in effect for months, full mobilization started) and sea (Operation Peking), but not at it's coasts? You're kidding, right? The nazis were not subtle about their goals after Poland refused to negotiate any longer about Danzig and everything to do with it.

I just kept the Luftwaffe in the quote to remind anyone who reads this, it's pretty exactly 100 years since bombers bombed a city for the first time in history. 5 Gotha-bombers hitting London, killing 95 people.

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Political arguments I prefer to leave to historians. But anyway, there would be no compromise tradeoff even after leaving Gdansk to Germany because surely there would be an ultimatum for the return of the entire Polish corridor.

You misunderstand me and I forgot to write about the defense of the Polish coast. I mean, that fortifications, ships, military units on the Polish coast were prepared from March 1939 to fight. Otherwise the Polish units on the coast were strengthened in March 1939 with sailors and equipment from the second fleet of the Polish Navy Riverine Flotilla of the Polish Navy. I mean military plans Polish Navy, which became after September 1, was improvised plans. They looked good on paper, but when it came to practice everyone probably knows.
 
There was no full mobilization of ground troops. General mobilization was announced on 29 August, but due to Allied pressure a few hours later it was canceled and announced the following day (with 31 August as the first mobilization day). So by the Allied guilt our mobilization was delayed by at least 24 valuable (because of peaceful) hours. Since the first of September German troops have fought with Poland partial mobilization.

 

 

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I just happened to come accross a book written by italians about ships. It's a conglomerate of "memorable" ships. And since they're italian, they festure a lot of italian ships. And we have seen only 6 italian ships so far.

The book gave me some pointers who to expect in VB when meeting/playing the Regia Marina. Because it is a major power fleet, which is supposed to have a lot of ships. And since I've proven to love to speculate to pass the time.... here I go (again)

For a CV there is the Aquila and the Sparviero, which shared a similar fate as the Graf Zeppelin, although they were the passenger liners "Roma" and "Augustus", commissioned in the 20's before conversion started but never got finished. But since there is some speculation about a quest line regarding the GZ, so there could be a similar one in the RN.

And about submarines, HN mentioned the Cagni-class, Italy had over 100 subs at the outbreak of WWII. There was also the case of the "Archimede".. or rather two of them. One was sold to Spain and became the General Mola (<- probable spanish sub). To cover that sell up one of the Brin-class ships was named Archimede and that Archimedes even circumnavigated Africa to reach Bordeaux. Another good example for a italian sub is the Enrico Tazzoli which sunk no less than 18 ships in the atlantic and set a record for longest time at sea with 80 days. Then there is the short ranged sub class Perla, which has very god manouverability. And that's only the bare "surface" of the italian submarines. And did I mention some of the long range subs also travelled to Japan? If I'm not mistaken one of them was also taken into japanese service.

For above water units, we have a lot not seen yet. For example the destroyers seen so far, Folgore, Soldati and Turbine class, are only three of 11 classes in service in 39 in the RN, not counting torpedo boat classes, which are sometimes classified as "light destroyers" or "hunting destroyers"... but certainly pack a heavier punch than a Rawalpindi..... at least on paper. So yeah in theory you can have 11 destroyers in the RM and not a single sister. Unlike in the Kriegsmarine, where you only got three classes, so a lot of siblings.

And then we have only met one light cruiser and one heavy cruiser each. The Pola of Zara class and the Duce d'Aosta. The Zara class is regarded by many the most beautiful ships in WWII btw. And don't tell Pola but in the book the Gorizia is taken as the representative of her class. But there is also the 1908 commissioned heavy cruiser San Giorgio which got actually refitted enough to serve inthe war and technically speaking her sister the San Marco, although in 39 she is a training vessel. And yes, if one of them is in the game this would be a ship older than Goeben/Yavuz. The third class of heavy cruisers would be the Trento class, with Trieste and Trento, both ladies got very busy during the war.

For light cruisers there is a lot of fun to be had story wise. Because as D'Aosta hinted: She has one full sister and 10 half sisters. And I really hope the Luigi Cadorna and the Armando Diaz are in the game. The biggest "full family of the Condottieri class btw is the Giussano-subclass with 4 full sisters. There is only one other "italian" class of light cruisers, but they won't be around before 1940....but...but there is the "Trento" class. And they were german cruisers, given to the italians after WWI. Because Italy won that one, y'know? The Taranto and Bari were build in Germany and while Taranto saw service as SMS Strassburg (commissioned 1912, a few months after Goeben), the Bari was originally planned for the russians. She was commissioned in 1914 just prior to the war in Danzig and was then confiscated and put into german service as SMS Pillau. Both ships were given to Italy in 1920. 

And we haven't even seen one, single battleship. What a miss. There are six BBs in three classes around.

The Conte di Cavour and the Giulio Cesare of the Conte di Cavour class. They saw service in WWI and even have already lost a sister, the Leonardo da Vinci, in 1916. 

The Andrea Doria and the Caio Duilio of the Andrea Doria class. They also saw service in WWI.

And then the youngest, the Littorio-class. Both the Littorio and Vittorio Veneto aren't finished in 39, but already commissioned. They only need some more armament installed. R&D and tech tutorial I hear you sneaking up on me?

I'd also like to point out, that, from what I've read the italians were really inventive and may have tech, no one else has. Also a looot of ships are really old, so they would fit into the "Old Dames club" and also may have some troubles being allied with germany and opposing the british now. They're certainly not so straight out personalities like Camicia Nera.

 

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