Victory Belles Lore questions

[Scootia]

I'd like to pose a question for our aircraft carriers in our next lore update, specifically Lexington and Hiryuu representing the largest and most  advance carrier fleets in the world, and in commemoration of Paul Allen's discovery of Lex's remains.  Ark Royal would be a welcome addition as well, if she can be bothered to come across the pond. And that, pertains to the nature of aviation amongst the Belles and Morgana, stirred by an observation from a previous update.

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Hinata Kagawa. Japanese. An expert pilot, who, together with his fiancée, Satomi Ushiba, has been attempting to break the air speed record set by Fritz Wendel. Believes doing so will cement the eminence of Japan’s technological prowess in the minds of other nations, and will further the development of related military technologies as well. Is not particularly impressed by the quality of Belle and Morgana aviation. Seeks funds for continued testing and research into aviation technologies.

 

As one of the possible personas we can throw our support behind, the notion that Belle and Morgana aviation are not particularly impressive raises several questions. Are they really unimpressive, not able to exceed anything that humans have put in the air? Or is this particular figure simply impossible to impress? The question I pose to the carrier Belles, is, succinctly: What precisely are the capabilities of air assets for Belles and Morganas? How does their pilot quality, speed, agility, and formation discipline compare with contemporary human air forces? Is it rightful to regard them as unimpressive?

[Käpt'n Korky]

I would love to see that question answered by the europeans Béarn and Ark Royal. 

[TwoHeavens]

Let's not even bother to split the difference and bring in four Belles. I mean I can never say I don't want more Arc (not that anything obviously portrays my bias) and we did just find Lady Lex, but the Americans and Japanese were the real leaders in the field at the time. Too bad Housho hasn't been confirmed yet. The first purpose built aircraft carrier would be an ideal educator on the subject.

[Legate of Mineta]

I believe the next Lore response has already been written, but I'll add this to the list!

[Dmnt]

14 hours ago, Käpt'n Korky said:

I would love to see that question answered by the europeans Béarn and Ark Royal. 

Implying poor Béarn(who genuinely believes a battleship-carrier hybrid is a good idea) is an expert on aircraft combat...

I'd love to see her again what she has to say on the matter tho.

[TwoHeavens]

I mean. The Japanese do end up exploring the concept of the Aviation Battleship quite heavily. Though it's doubtful they would have bothered if the Americans hadn't stomped the Kido Butai at Midway.

[DrYuriMom]

Don't forget Chiyoda.  Seaplanes are planes too!

[TwoHeavens]

Chiyoda and her sister end up as full light aircraft carriers as I recall.

[Wellington99]

Can Belles just innately speak the language of whoever their captain is or do they speak their own native language but the captain hears it in their language? i.e. a German Belle speaks German but to her Russian captain, she is speaking Russian

[TwoHeavens]

More generally let's open Welly's question up a bit. There's lots that goes into the international question for a Walküre and her captain. Namely what kind of chaos does it cause when a Walküre from nation X selects a Captain from nation Y? Do INPF crews stay more or less the same as they would have sailed with from their original home port? Or is it all volunteers? And if so, what's the population mix on a given ship like? I assume most INPF members would want to keep their crews as close to original as humanly possible, but we face a rather inhuman enemy so volunteering a crew on behalf of themselves seems a bit unfair. I mean when you offer me the chance to spit in death's eye and fight whatever in the nine hells the Morgana are, with whatever guns, grit and steel my ship and any sailing with us can muster I'm all for it. However I'm a Marine and airman and both are by requirement, complete and utter madmen*. So I'm likely not the best example of the general population of any given warship's crew is what I'm trying to say.

Further how would internal procedure change for a new Walküre who's selected a non-native captain? Security procedure is the most obvious issue, and is taken extremely seriously in the US Navy and Marine Corps, they haven't hanged any one for it recently, but I believe it's still an option should the need arise. A USN Walküre with an IJN captain now has a massive security risk aboard as commanding officer. Another decent reason to segregate Belles from the rest of the fleet come to think of it. When it comes to classified material does a Walküre ever run into a issue where loyalty to nation conflicts with loyalty to captain? And that can go both ways, the native Navy might be concealing something pertinent to the non-native captain that the Walküre's heard about or the captain might be pressing the Walküre for non-mission pertinent classified material. It would be nice to think that every individual called to INPF service does so with honorable intent and clean conscience, but one can't help but think that someone will take advantage for the sake of their own nation. 

Nominally that's probably mostly countered by the Walküre themselves. An extremely patriotic Walküre is probably unlikely to select a captain who lacks similar fervor for whatever their homeland might be.Then again, captain selection is still something of a mystery, leading to further mysteries like a Lance Corporal from Arizona who managed to get washed up on deck and was told to change uniforms...

 

[TwoHeavens]

*To beat Rocky or some other American sailor/groundling to the punch, while ensuring this doesn't potentially end up transmitted to Belfast, Mahan, etc, yes, we're required to be massive egotists as well. Albeit to a lesser degree than the modern Navy SEAL. We actually have to learn how to write books about ourselves on our own instead of getting training from the Navy and a offer of a book deal with Harper Collins on completing BUD/S. 

[Wellington99]

10 hours ago, TwoHeavens said:

*To beat Rocky or some other American sailor/groundling to the punch, while ensuring this doesn't potentially end up transmitted to Belfast, Mahan, etc, yes, we're required to be massive egotists as well. Albeit to a lesser degree than the modern Navy SEAL. We actually have to learn how to write books about ourselves on our own instead of getting training from the Navy and a offer of a book deal with Harper Collins on completing BUD/S. 

$10 bucks says they're pop up books that come with free crayons to enhance the flavor

[RockyArby]

The Marines aren't mad men. They're mad beasts. Make sure your shots are up to date before approaching. ?

[Käpt'n Korky]

Wellingtons and TwoHeavens question(s) tap into a concern I have formed. Now in my fanfic I chose a rather "soft" solution, not the most propable, of making INPF work voluntary and filling the missing men with conscripts from "suspicious" sources. And that is only the solution for the 2nd Squad. I assume all the "valuable" volunteers went into 1st Squad. But that was just my assumption for my fanfic set in Germany.

How is the quality of the available men?
How is recruitment done in the real world? It was already stated there are plenty of volunteers all over the world. My question therefore is how is it actually done. Does the INPF select the crew? Or the captain himself? Or the nations? Or does it depend on the nation you're recruiting from? For example the UK only let's seasoned navy sailors volunteer directly for an INPF ship, but in France everyone can join the INPF vessels? Or in Germany they "volunteer" their best sailors in an effort to "lead" the world out of this crisis and proof german supremacy, but in the Soviet Union INPF service is a way to get "around" the Gulag, since it is seen as a certain death sentence for the average sailor?

This also taps into the concerns of Welly and TH with the language, composition and quality of the crew. Are there INPF guidelines or regulations?

Oh and of course: Are there women? And how do the Walküren react to them?

[TwoHeavens]

On 4/17/2018 at 1:41 AM, Wellington99 said:

$10 bucks says they're pop up books that come with free crayons to enhance the flavor

Nah. We do include free crayons with our doctrine books though. Snacks are good.

On 4/17/2018 at 3:25 AM, RockyArby said:

The Marines aren't mad men. They're mad beasts. Make sure your shots are up to date before approaching. ?

Hey now that rabies thing was one time! 

The recruiting question's a good one too. I mean... sure it's a nice idea to let anyone and his cousin volunteer, but it seems like it'd make sense to recruit from able seamen already in active service if at all possible, and it seems likely that such recruiting will be going through  INPF member navies any way. We know that the ships and their captains still belong to their respective navies. Barring an odd situation like in Scootia's Echoes of Jutland story where revived Kaiserliche Marine warships end up with primarily British crews because said ships hulks were in Royal Navy possession on revival, and their actual parent navy, and indeed nation, doesn't quite exist any more, you can assume that the navies in question want their crews on their ships. Which would go back to that security thing I mentioned. 

Training wise... I can't see there not being something of an INPF boot camp, probably run in each country by native and select international INPF  personnel, followed by a lot of training as crews on the ships themselves. 

To say nothing of OCS. Any random schmuck can get picked by a Belle. Making said schmuck a naval officer capable of fighting a warship, no matter how much a Belle might help, would need to be refined to an art form then compressed to as little time as humanly possible so as to get Captain and Belle into the active fleet ASAP. I imagine certain nations will want to ensure the political reliability and loyalty of said new Captain as well outside of the INPF curriculum. 

Not plugging Nel and I's forthcoming OCS series at all there. 

[Wellington99]

The way I currently have the training is they adapt Royal Navy officer training to include specific training in regards to Belles and truncate the experience to get Belle captains capable enough to handle a ship

[lazarusdw]

Lore question if United States government has decided that they’re close enough to American citizens that any money they make can be taxed. Can they run for public office i.e. could we have congresswoman or senator Boise.

[TwoHeavens]

In the United States at least, I can answer that from a nuts and bolts real world perspective. Might be different in the lore due to author fiat, but past you know, the entire premise, history hasn't changed all that much in the VB timeline. 

As I understand it Belles basically got hammered out into comparable legal status to commissioned naval officers in the United States Navy. This is important for a variety of reasons including giving them prisoner of war status in the event of capture by a foreign terrestrial power and placing them in the chain of command aboard themselves, and thus able to give lawful orders. The Articles  of War and Articles of Governance of the Navy, what would eventually become the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), along with Federal law and  War Department/Department of Defense directives restrict the political activities of commissioned officers and enlisted men of the United States Armed Forces, especially as a member of the active component of the military. (There's a little more stretch for National Guard and Reservists). So if the Belles are citizens they could indeed run for office provided that...
A. They can actually get to their appointed place of duty, be it a state seat of government or the US Congress building in Washington D.C.
B. They have been either struck from the Naval List and decommissioned or possibly transferred to the Naval Reserve. 
C. They have the explicit permission of the Secretary of War.  
 

[Käpt'n Korky]

3 hours ago, TwoHeavens said:

In the United States at least, I can answer that from a nuts and bolts real world perspective. Might be different in the lore due to author fiat, but past you know, the entire premise, history hasn't changed all that much in the VB timeline. 

As I understand it Belles basically got hammered out into comparable legal status to commissioned naval officers in the United States Navy. This is important for a variety of reasons including giving them prisoner of war status in the event of capture by a foreign terrestrial power and placing them in the chain of command aboard themselves, and thus able to give lawful orders. The Articles  of War and Articles of Governance of the Navy, what would eventually become the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), along with Federal law and  War Department/Department of Defense directives restrict the political activities of commissioned officers and enlisted men of the United States Armed Forces, especially as a member of the active component of the military. (There's a little more stretch for National Guard and Reservists). So if the Belles are citizens they could indeed run for office provided that...
A. They can actually get to their appointed place of duty, be it a state seat of government or the US Congress building in Washington D.C.
B. They have been either struck from the Naval List and decommissioned or possibly transferred to the Naval Reserve. 
C. They have the explicit permission of the Secretary of War.  
 

Well your list brings up some interesting questions:

A: How deep is the Potomac-River in Washington D.C.? And which state parliaments are near a reachable body of water?

B: Can a Walküre ask for "retirement"? I think at a time of need, like now, not. But generally speaking.

Gut dass wir uns um so etwas keine Gedanken machen müssen.....

[lazarusdw]

9 hours ago, Käpt'n Korky said:

Well your list brings up some interesting questions:

A: How deep is the Potomac-River in Washington D.C.? And which state parliaments are near a reachable body of water?

B: Can a Walküre ask for "retirement"? I think at a time of need, like now, not. But generally speaking.

Gut dass wir uns um so etwas keine Gedanken machen müssen.....

well Belfast can see the UK Parliament from where she is dock. Also can you define retirement just to be sure

[Dmnt]

Next will be a belle running for president.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

[lazarusdw]

4 minutes ago, Dmnt said:

Next will be a belle running for president.

In for a penny, in for a pound.

I doubt it FDR is very popular among belles but after him who knows

[Käpt'n Korky]

4 hours ago, lazarusdw said:

I doubt it FDR is very popular among belles but after him who knows

Hey, the french Walküren can also become president under the speculated terms.
Goeben would be also in a position to run for a presidency technically..... but how to get to Ankara?

And always remember: No taxation, without representation. 

I'm not talking about the Blade Runner retirement? A normal retirement, retirement?

[Fifrein]

A couple things I read recently got me thinking, and I came up with a question I don't think has been asked here or in the general question thread. 

Can Belles communicate with Non-belle ships? Even though the Non-belle ships obviously can't communicate with people, do the ships have their own special way of passing information? For example, A Belle destroyer is moored 200 yds from a cruise ship. The captain and crew of the destroyer would not, under normal circumstances, go and talk to the crew and passengers of the cruise ship. It would be a breach of security! In this case, the Destroyer herself goes and starts chatting with the cruise ship, and even though the cruise ship has no belle, she's still got the spirit every ship has, and she's still somewhat aware. She knows submarines were spotted 2 days before, on her normal passage between the US and Britain. The Destroyer can then go into her next patrol with this information at hand, which helps explain how belles can know more than their commanders and crew, and helps them survive. So to repeat, could this happen? Can the belles speak to non-belle ships? 

As a side note which arises from the same question, we've only seen warships with belles, with the loose connector being HMS Rawalpindi. So, to expand, can non-warships, even completely unarmed ships, manifest belles as well, so long as they hold the necessary fighting spirit?

It doesn't particularly matter who answers this, but maybe a hint from the connector herself, Rawalpindi, would be appropriate! 

[lazarusdw]

28 minutes ago, Fifrein said:

A couple things I read recently got me thinking, and I came up with a question I don't think has been asked here or in the general question thread. 

Can Belles communicate with Non-belle ships? Even though the Non-belle ships obviously can't communicate with people, do the ships have their own special way of passing information? For example, A Belle destroyer is moored 200 yds from a cruise ship. The captain and crew of the destroyer would not, under normal circumstances, go and talk to the crew and passengers of the cruise ship. It would be a breach of security! In this case, the Destroyer herself goes and starts chatting with the cruise ship, and even though the cruise ship has no belle, she's still got the spirit every ship has, and she's still somewhat aware. She knows submarines were spotted 2 days before, on her normal passage between the US and Britain. The Destroyer can then go into her next patrol with this information at hand, which helps explain how belles can know more than their commanders and crew, and helps them survive. So to repeat, could this happen? Can the belles speak to non-belle ships? 

As a side note which arises from the same question, we've only seen warships with belles, with the loose connector being HMS Rawalpindi. So, to expand, can non-warships, even completely unarmed ships, manifest belles as well, so long as they hold the necessary fighting spirit?

It doesn't particularly matter who answers this, but maybe a hint from the connector herself, Rawalpindi, would be appropriate! 

well I believe that in past updates it's been said that belles have a supernatural way of communicating with self's at least beyond that is unknown. As for civilian ships having belles I doubt it but pindi is just a civilian with guns strapped to her. Which would imply that any armed ship can have a belle regardless of if they are a warship or not