More points in Character Creation?

[Impet]

We can already spend 'fewer' points in character creation if we want to. I've made several test characters that I ran through character creation without selecting a single point of anything because what I wanted to test had nothing to do with any of those backgrounds or better than 1 stat points, or was even hampered by starting with skills unlocked.

 

I've laughed a little, wondering just how this incredibly average/incredibly below average and relatively inept student got invited into the University. If you walk with Oan, your only option for talking about your strengths is to say, "I'm pretty well balanced, actually" - in this case, surely an embarrassed lie. I've wanted to be able to say, in answer to the question, "What would you say your best strength is, the thing that really makes you deserve to be at the finest school in all of Elumia?" with something like -

 

 

"Err, dunno. Think someone mailed it to me by mistake?"

 

"I haven't got a clue! But I'm glad I am."

 

"I'm very curious. How I got in is one of the many things I'm wondering."

 

Or suchlike

 

 

 

 

Regardless. We can already spend less points, so... why not be able to spend more We can spend 'just the right amount', if we've that much self control. Maybe spending to many would open up some silent penalties, we could then have fun figuring out 'just what went wrong and how'? (Yes, alright, I do expect only I would like that option. Maybe we could toggle it on or off? No? Drat, kk then.)

 

I'd especially like to see additional negatives. I'd also like to be able to combine negatives. Why can't we play a descendant of traitors who is also hated by the rest of their traitorious family? Just cause no one else likes me doesn't mean my unloveable family does

 

Some possibly interesting detriments -

 

Bad luck magnet (a 1 or more point penalty to all success rolls)

 

Disliked by Animals[or some other category, there's many possible] (a 1 or more point penalty to all rolls involving animals)

 

Cruising for a Bruising (Gives a -2 or more to charm, and/or (and!) sets the relationship level with one or more of the game's NPC bullies to -10. You -like- picking fights, now lets see if you can back up what you've started)

 

Sore thumb (Gives a -10 relationship level with a Professor. Maybe you remind them of someone they had a lot of trouble with in school, or maybe they can just tell you are trouble. Either way, you can tell at first sight, this teacher really, really doesn't like you)

 

Sickly (Gives random... and possibly frequent... additional harmful points to stress and/or vitality, in addition to whatever changes gameplay causes. Maybe a short mention in history to alert/explain the unpleasant happenings (You're running a fever again -1 vitality./You were up late coughing again. You're still tired when your day starts and your throat's very sore +1 stress, -1 vitality/Your asthma's acting up, and you just can't seem to catch your breath +1 stress)

 

False friend, secret enemy (Someone at the school secretly hates you, and is often trying to get you in trouble with the teachers and other students. The results of this are either secret-not on history- or show as 'Someone has done whatever and now you have this unfortunate result.' This person never takes direct action against you, so it is not obvious who your harrasser is, even when you talk to them. Their relationship level doesn't show this hate, and they'll even pretend to be your best friend to better mess up your life. The only way to end this enmity, with you winning at least, is to somehow figure out who and force them to duel you - and of course you need to win this duel or you've not actually achieved anything helpful for your life)

[Impet]

False friend, secret enemy (Someone at the school secretly hates you, and is often trying to get you in trouble with the teachers and other students. The results of this are either secret-not on history- or show as 'Someone has done whatever and now you have this unfortunate result.' This person never takes direct action against you, so it is not obvious who your harrasser is, even when you talk to them. Their relationship level doesn't show this hate, and they'll even pretend to be your best friend to better mess up your life. The only way to end this enmity, with you winning at least, is to somehow figure out who and force them to duel you - and of course you need to win this duel or you've not actually achieved anything helpful for your life)

 

 

Just wanted to add... if you added in backgrounds like this, it would be really nice to be able to pick them more than once. Would make it a very, very interesting challenge trying to make it through the year(s) with -several- secret enemies all working against you at the same time. The sheer effort of being able to find them all, and beat them all one at a time, whew

[Legate of Mineta]

Impet;

 

That's a fantastic idea.

 

I think we will look at this one in Year 2, when we can better teach the AI how to hide their Actions.

[Jarod Cain]

I've mostly been fiddling around with character creation over and over as of late and I think that a couple of extra points wouldn't be a bad thing. I like the suggestion of twelve for the initial choice spread as that doesn't overpower anything else. That or the suggestion for open or silent flaws could make for even more interesting characters.

-J-

[Impet]

Oh yeah. Since stats can go to 0 and into the negatives, would you consider allowing us to lower, as well as raise, our stats in character creation?

[laclongquan]

Add about one secret enemy of each college with the monicker "Secret Adversary Alpha/Beta" and such. Make that you cant seem to find them due to high Hide, Smoke Screen. They will only be tattled out if you got a 10 Relationship with one student of that House and successful Befriend, OR successful Pray of Vision. These SAs will join the school all at once on year 2.

[Fhoenix]

Ok, the thing about the secret enemies. I like it, but at the same time I hate it. From my experience events/adventures in Academagia work the best, when they invoke not some random people, but concrete students. I just had this great Aranaz-specific adventure aboout inter-college rivalry and it had predetermined actors, poles of power in the colleges, that had you go "Oh, snap, that's exactly the right person for this story!". You see, people have personality in the game. You are given facts and hints about them in descriptions and clique abilities. After a while you come to expect that bullies will bully and trouble will be stirred by the troublemakers. Even if an honor student does something bad, I'd like it to be in-character, not because some random generator told it so. So I hope there will be no enemies randomly chosen for the sake of randomness.

And I'd hate if Relationship numbers started to lie. It's one thing if you use a skill and the game tells you that a character seems honest. Taking a system that tells you relationship dynamics on the level of the whole school and in hard numbers, then making it lie in a specific case just because... that would be bad. That would be not a character lying to a character, but a game lying to a player. An entirely different thing for an entirely different kind of game. IMHO if somebody is an enemy then either do not allow his Relationship value to rise, or make him a friend if it rises.

[Impet]

Welp, if this was implimented, in whatever form our Developers run with (Betcha anything it won't be 100% what I described above, cause it won't be me making it ) I did suggest that it be a selectable (multiply selectable please!) background. That would save players like yourself from ever having to deal with it except when you wanted to; and you'd start the game with full knowledge of if you were to face one or more such enemies - or not.

 

 

As to wether this idea is right, good, or realistic, well, that's a harder call. My first best friend ended up messing up my life quite a bit, mostly because I was a rather better friend than she, and she wanted certain things far more than my friendship and she saw a way to use me to achieve her goals. And because I lacked the understanding to realize what was going on, but then again I was 14 at the time.

 

 

Some of the generally nicest people can have 'grudges', and even fairly irrational motivations for liking just about everyone 'but you'. Maybe they see you as a threat, maybe they think someone they like likes you more than them, maybe someone else offered them something unattainable if only they make you miserable enough. Maybe your enemy is only your enemy because -they- have a secret enemy, and it isn't you, but they believe it is you and they have no choice but to defend themself by taking you down.

 

I kinda envision 'catching' this person as either being a process of elimation, or outright luck. Maybe you'll be watching several students actions, and notice someone doing something odd (or not doing anything you can recognize, when everyone else is) during a day when your enemy acts. Maybe you'll have to provoke duels with several students as you try to figure out which one your enemy is, and deal with whatever problems come from picking the wrong fights with would be friends as your real enemies learn more and more ways to mess with you.

 

 

 

In any case, I'm sure this idea, if implimented, is not for everyone. It brings a darker, meaner tone to the game. I described the idea as intended for a selectable or not -penalty-, not benefit to begin the game with for players who were interested. I completely agree that this 'random horrible enemy' should not be a part of every game for every player's characters - that's not in the spirit of what this game is. Likewise, I don't recommend making every player's characters have to be black sheep or descended from traitors either

[Legate of Mineta]

Impet;

 

Backgrounds which lower Attributes could work- we'll see about those for CP2 or the DLC, depending.

[Monteverdi]

Personally, I think 10 points is just right. It means I have to make choices, and can't become good at several things--at least not without working hard to figure which spells to use in advance, and which locations to start at. With 10 points, I can create a student who has a distinct background. With less, I wouldn't have those distinctive features. With more, he/she'd be too well-rounded.

[Exfides]

Just as it says. I don't mind having to choose for my character, but I'd like to be able to select at least one option from every list. I suggested this and while not agreeing, Legate of Minate was interested in seeing if more people were interested in this.

 

So I thought I'd make a poll to see how people feel about it. While no promises and garantuees have been made, I believe it might help the good folks of this game to decide what to do.

 

 

Please feel free to state your opinion on the subject with your arguments, but please try to keep it pleasant. (not that I need to worry with you guys, you are all great so far.)

 

 

Personally, I too would prefer a small increase in points during character creation, so that that total would be between 12 to 15. I like the flexibility and freedom of the current system as a whole, so don't reduce the points spent on each "screen" during character creation or force people to spend one on each screen if they don't want to. I really think the only change necessary is a small bump the total points.

 

I also like the ideas of Impet and others for additional negative options that would give extra points. I don't have any specific ideas along these lines, but coming-up with creative and challenging disadvantages that at least some players would be willing to choose should be the priority.

[Bullwinkle]

I like things the way they are. As others have said, it forces you to make hard choices, and limits you to a small selection of skills, rather than a breadth which seems excessive for a beginning student. I definitely don't like the 'one from each category' idea. I like to be able to specialize. It's essential for roleplaying.

 

As far as secret enemies goes, I agree with Fhoenix. Hiding people's actions takes away their personality, which is mostly expressed through the actions you see them take in the game. I wouldn't object if it were a selectable option, however.

[Andor]

I think 10 points feels about right. There is a tension in character creation between what you want and what you can have and that tension follows through and flavors the rest of the game.

 

While there are some arguements in favor of mandatory category picks, it think it should be pretty limited. Sure, everyone may be born under a sign, but what exactly is the big deal of being born under the sign of the dispeptic wombat? Not everyone gets to be the hero of destiny, someone has to be the greengrocer too.

 

There are I think only two things that ought to be mandatory picks. One is a cultural background. It would add more depth to the world if everone had a greater sense of belonging to it. If that were to become mandatory however I would suggest making them all about similar and then removing the point cost from them. The other 'mandatory pick' and for the same reason is familly, or at least 'who raised you'. For that category however I would add some options like 'abandoned at the monestary door' or 'raised by weasles' and have the category include a full spread from a 2 point "Your parents are famous ninja/pirate/cowboys" to normal 1 point picks, to one or two 0-point "your parents are Ted and Wilma Everyman" choices to the -1 point sucktacular picks.

 

The one point spending area that I think is very weak right now is familiars. Familiars in general are weak, like bits of fog. So you can either spend a point to choose between variously shaped bits of fog, or you can save your point and get Moaning Myrtle who offers no functional differences between the cat shaped bit of fog or the lizard shaped bit of fog. So why spend the point?

[ackron]

I think 10 is a good number for CC points, especially considering the fact that you can pick up a couple extra points with "negative" backgrounds.

 

One thing I think should be looked at though is the relative quality of the backgrounds. The story options that give you stat boosts are simply much better than any of the other picks (with the possible exception of choosing a familiar and maybe 1 or 2 others that give you unique actions like Prodigy: Curiosity). It makes it very hard not to take them. Maybe the skill based backgrounds or the familiar based backgrounds could be made better?

[Vieux chat]

10 isn't enough, because with 1 in an attribute you just can't do very much. Attributes are just too important to just take picks that give some skills instead of attributes. When you chose an attribute you also buy some skills because you'll be able to train them faster.

For instance instead of taking some levels in incantation, revision, etc.. you should take something that gives intelligence, because you'll train those skills much faster. In fact to do anything in the game you need skills, but you won't get them if you don't have fairly well attributes. With a 1 in an attribute you'll get linked skill up to 5 or 6 at the end of the year. And that's with skills that are from class !

 

So, choices that just gives skills should be free (but don't allow to take 2 or 3 backgrounds of the same type) and those with attributes should cost something. Even a background that gives 6 skills level (in different skills) don't match with a +1 in Intelligence or insight. If you create a race between a character that start with +1 in int and another that starts with +6 levels in skills, the student with +1 in int will be far above at the end of the year.

[Schwarzbart]

The curent calculation set a attribute point to be wort betwean 2 and 6 Skill leveles at the start but I personal think even 10 skillevel might be not enough.

So In my opinion the backgrounds that gives atributes + extras are simply to strong because they are even bether then spending the points in the Attribute window but all pure Skill Backgrounds need something extra.

But Its not this easy because you also can train this skills then right at the start and some skills at 1 gives you access to great places!

So I.e. curent Scholarship is bether then Curiosity and some others because you get direct access to the Venalicium Library!

 

(Beside that the other language skills you can train trough a ability you also got from elumian give great training methods for other skills i.e voice)

 

[gpallis]

I was wavering between '10-is-too-much and 10-is-just-right' - I normally start with a character idea, put 5 into stats, then pick 3 choices that suit it well in terms of RP, then look around for 2 more that I can imagine to the character. But I decided I actually like that fishing process - I always have a better idea of the character by the end.

[tenchifew]

10 points is a tad to little - 12 would be ideal if you are not taking a familiar.

 

If familiar is taken two extra points to boost his stats are a must in my opinion in order to not extremely fall behind in character development.

This makes familiar an effectively 3 point pick and then the character really does not have enough points.

[89157Z]

I always, and I mean always, find I finish character creation wishing I had one more point. 11 is an odd number, but it's the number I wish we were using. 12 would be cool as wel.

 

As far as the mandatory picks idea goes, I like Andor's idea for this. Everyone should have a family and a culture, and the cultures should be about equal to each other while families should be widely divergent (with a few zero-cost hardly-more-than-flavor backgrounds too). Also, "Raised by Weasels" would be an awesome background. Go weasels!

 

I dislike the secret enemy idea. I think it would just cause stress and confusion on the part of the player. There's a lot of 'hidden' stuff already in this game. Currently it's more like hidden carrots. The hidden stuff is neat, and used as a reward for an exploratory play style. I don't think it would be very enjoyable to be hit with a hidden stick. I think it might cause people to curse the hidden content in general. They'd start cursing the game for hiding too much of the information needed to play it. We've seen this already on the forums! We don't need to make that worse.

[Jazerus]

There are certain things that everyone has. Every student should have a Family, a Culture (I never take these, they're all useless!), a former education (You wouldn't be up to the admissions standards if you hadn't had previous education; however, I never take any of them), and something interesting that happened to you on the way to school. Everything else should cost points, but we should get one free pick from each of these categories; as it stands, most of the non-family backgrounds in the categories I've listed are not worth a point, they're just useful for flavor.

[Draigh]

Well.. my student has a boring average family (no black sheep, no special family history, not very wealthy or poor, etc)

and I come from the more local culture, so things are not that different for me. Which also means I didn't travel as much to get here.

And my former education was perfectly fine, I just didn't learn anything extra but the basics there.

 

aka no special backgrounds for any of those topics, saving points instead to learn some more locations within the city itself.

It's a choice one can now make. Not everyone is born under an epic star sign, or coming from some dysfunctional or special family.

[89157Z]

Not everyone has a Family in the sense of the background. Some people had dull families. (Perhaps 'very uninteresting family' should be a 0-point background, if families are made mandatory.) Not everyone has an education - the game specifically calls this out. "Often, a child's education is nothing more than what they were taught by their family." And sometimes a long, boring trip is just a long, boring trip no matter where you're from.

 

I do think the Culture backgrounds would make more sense as 0 point options, so that everyone can take one. Incidentally, Draigh, if you're from the local culture then you're Renaglian. Mineta is in Renaglia.

 

As for how the low educational note affects things, perhaps Academagia picks students by some divinatory method rather than by admission standards. They do have a quality Astrology course.