Jump to content
Black Chicken Studios Forums


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by TwoHeavens

  1. Legate I don't think people are really asking for firm dates. I think they just want the kind of thing you were telling us just now, but in a KS update. Where's everything stand? How's the writing? How's the art coming? Sound design? Sound track? Where's integration and ongoing engine work stand? Not when it will be done necessarily. Just... what's happening. I think a lot of people would be content not having dates or deadlines, provided they have a general feel for what's going on with the actual state of the work. And don't get me wrong, I fully understand an update like that's extra work on the pile, but communication doesn't have to commit the studio to dates or timelines, and it seems like a lot of folks are feeling like they're really in the dark.
  2. WW2 is officially a world war, with combatants on three continents.
  3. I'd argue that making a Belle a Shintai would be incorrect. Shintai or Mitamashiro are items that contain a part of the god, the ship's hull is acting as a container for the avatar of the kami, and likely a small shintai from the parent cult as well as mentioned below. Making a ship a shintai would require making the ship a shrine, and shrines really can't be mobile for a variety of reasons, location is very important after all. Plus there's the factor where you're pissing off the the parent kami if the ship sinks in combat. In short, the key factor is the mobility, not how temporary the ship is or is not, and it can be argued the ships are temporary, as we know that the spirit moves from ship to ship in her line. The other critical factor, beyond the ships being a temporary vessel, is that the Belles aren't new Kami. Nor are they specific to their ships. Not as far as Shinto is concerned any way. Japanese warships are named primarily for features of the Japanese landscape with a few notable exceptions. These features would already have individual cults, long established. So if you have a woman turn up aboard the Ashigara, claiming to BE Ashigara, the cult of Mount Ashigara is probably going to want to be involved at some stage or another, because that's an avatar of *their* kami. Then making the ship a Mikoshi instead of a Shintai, best allows (from a Shinto perspective) a warship following a warship's business, with minimal risk of backlash from a ship being sunk and allows the Kami the dignity of being evacuated with the rest of the crew. The Belle can't leave, but a Shintai from the main shrine could be, and very likely would be placed aboard since the kami has chosen to manifest itself aboard the warship named in it's honor. I'll also say that I'm using the term "Gods" quite loosely here, and the IJN Belles likely don't see themselves in the entirely divine sense of the term at all. There might be one or two, but you'd have to have a hell of an ego to think like that, and we haven't seen a IJN Belle with that kind of loud personality yet. Note to self, do not let Scharnhorst hang out with any Japanese Belles who might translate the word kami for her under any circumstances. I'd also note there are no examples historically that I or my correspondents could find of entire ships being enshrined. We did find Mikoshi being installed on boats and ships however.
  4. Fishing trawlers are ocean going, but they lack true endurance. You aren't going to circle the world in a trawler. You might be able to swing it, but it's way outside the design. Ditto the small water craft used by the RNLI, which are primarily focused on coastal operations around the British Isles last I knew.
  5. I think the line between a boat and a ship is really quite clear. The Navy (and Marine Corps) rule of thumb if that a boat can be carried by a ship, and a ship can carry a boat. Now obviously there's some exceptions to this rule, in the 20th and 21st century we saw massive floating dry docks and transport ships that are designed to quite literally ship ships, but that doesn't demote their cargo to boat status. So if we'd like to add some more qualifiers, we should look at intended use, and endurance. A ship is a blue water vessel (meaning the open ocean proper, no coast line hugging) intended for or capable of extensive voyages. A fleet oiler or replenishment ship is a ship because of their size, their endurance and their intended use to keep up with and support the fleet. So with that in mind, and the "rule" that every "ship" has a Belle to one extent or another, we can rule out a Belle popping up on every life boat or fishing trawler. Now the rest of this is just conjecture and over all I'm very in line with Pac. The origin of Belles come from faith. Even modernly if you told an airman, sailor or sea duty Marine worth their salt had embodied itself they'd no doubt be a little surprised, but would accept the idea quite readily, because of course the ship has a spirit. Sure it's a bit odd that she's up and walking around, sitting in the mess and jawing with the crew, but why wouldn't she if she was indeed up and walking around herself? Since the days of ancient sail, and I do mean ancient, like before the Peloponnesian War ancient, when sea faring was young, sailors have believed quite firmly in the spirit of their vessels. (Almost universally female on a global scale too.) This idea is so common that it's in our language when we refer to a ship or vessel. "She" "Her", always as if she was a person herself. It's why I think ship girl media's so popular, well beyond what the creators of Kantai Collection or other properties expected. If we go with the conception that gods, any gods, exist because of human faith, usually based on a significant concept or edifice, then Belles are a quite literal case of deus ex machina.
  6. I'd like to know more about the power ratio between Belles and their equivalent conventional ships, not that I'm intending a life of mild piracy or attacking conventional fleets... that anyone can prove... but purely for a sense of proportion. What type of tonnage can a Light Cruiser Belle take on and reliably handle? Has the INPF found a way to safely test Belle defenses? Hurling a 41 cm shell at Belfast is all well and good if it's more like tossing a wad of paper at someone than an actual attack, but if certain volumes of conventional fire can damage a Belle either by sheer volume or by a single overpowering shot, well that'd obviously be a bad thing to say the very least. Conversely what type of damage could Belfast's guns do compared to conventional weapons? The Town class cruisers were equipped with... 6 inch Mk XXIII naval guns off the top of my head, which would probably have... 800 m/s or so muzzle velocity. Some very brief research suggests Belfast would be getting about 76mm or so of armor penetration at medium range striking side armor... prior to manifesting herself that is. Final technical question, do Belles impact propulsion at all? Can Belfast jump her speed or make a slightly tighter turn that a conventional Town class ship? We've heard about augmented defense and weapons, but increased propulsion and range would be similarly valuable. P.S. Sorry for using you as the example Belfast, didn't know who else might be joining you. Courier with flowers and some fresh tea I picked up in the Pacific should be hitting your usual pier in an hour or so, and barring that, will pass things on to Rawalpindi.
  7. Indy Nidell of The Great War channel started their new WW2 series today, looks great.
  8. I thought we'd already heard about that multiple times from one Belle or another. That might just be head cannon stuff in my head though.
  9. I think you're absolutely right that I've completely over thought this, but a lot of the fun parts about the fluff surrounding Victory Belles so far is the world building. No ship girl media outside of VB has been willing to address what the world sees a Belle as for the most part, because that's more depth that those media properties need or desire to follow. It's simply of no real benefit to them. Work out the background and small details in game might feel just a bit more natural for people playing. I mean this whole discussion started because I looked at a couple words of Japanese and went "Huh, that feels linguistically and culturally wrong" after all. I'd expect you and Khorn to make similar arguments over finer points of German linguistics and culture as applied to the game if something stuck out like that to you. It's also worth noting that housing an incarnate kami or avatar of the kami to their desires... not to tradition, would be considered of rather grave import. So I'd expect Japanese belles would have quarters if they so desired. Pissing a god off is generally not something most people want to do. Especially when that god has a battery of 41cm guns. I wonder if Voykov has quarters. Or if she sleeps. Or eats. A lot of the Belles we've met have been quite "human" in their behavior, Voykov has more in common with the Terminator. Be interesting if she allowed herself such "frivolous" things. We also haven't met a truly "inhuman" Belle either which also has interesting potential.
  10. I always imagine Rawa sounding a bit like one of my drill instructors demanding the Captain(s) fall in for mail call.
  11. It would probably depend on the crew and kami in question. Chances are a room would be given over to a kamidana style shrine to contain the actual shintai from the parent cult. That room would be lined with a shimenawa, and possibly other critical areas. I could see an argument made for a shimenawa over the hatch to the engine room for example.
  12. This is all about propaganda and information control. Much like when we discussed "The Jewish Question" for a Kriegsmarine captain or Belle. Sure you could lock the captain up and dry dock the Belle. Which is ill advised, especially for the Japanese who are NECK deep in the shit during the Morgana war. Everyone else is gonna be facing issues. The Brits and the Japanese are facing existential crises. There is nowhere on either island to run. Precious few places to hide. They either put every gun to sea they can and win there... or they die at home. Plus, putting an "undesirable" captain to sea, doing something useful, is out of sight, out of mind. They don't have to name the real captain in press releases after all. There's other options as well. Hitler hand waved the whole race issue for an entire nation, the military government and the Emperor can manage it for one or two individuals. So it'd be a clusterfuck but it's something they can work with, and they have every motivation to do so.
  13. I am blatantly stating that a Japanese Belle's Captain would be considered in that light under the auspices of State Shinto in the 1930s and 40s. Especially in light of Nagato's comments regarding how Belles are viewed in Japanese society. From the Japanese perspective the Captain or a Captain of a Belle is an individual who has been personally selected by the Kami, this has an inherently religious value to it, and there are some parallels culturally to the role of the Kannushi for a Belle Captain. In acting as a medium between the lay people and the spirits/gods in particular. That might not be how some of the Belles themselves see it, or some of their crews, but it's how Japanese society, the Imperial Government and the Imperial Household Agency (the buck stops here for State Shinto) would see it, and they're the ones who set the terminology to distinguish a captain of a Belle.
  14. So after talking it out with Ninjapacman, and a quick consult with some other folks up on Japanese linguistics and culture I would like to raise issue with a term Nagato used in this update. "Senchou no Kamigami" is a bit... inelegant. Previously Belles have used senchou, kanchou and "Kaigun-daisa" to address the avatar of the Captain's Association (Poor fellow must be quite stressed with all of us crammed into their head). The latter is accurate for the formal rank of Captain, which a Belle Captain might not be, and senchou/kanchou is accurate for the position of captain. The position and the rank of course are not the same thing, even in the US Navy today. We also believe that, especially as the Japanese government and military were in the early 20th century, they would not use such a term. As Nagato herself mentions, the Japanese belles are a *very* big deal in Japan, not just from a military perspective, but from a religious one. To that end, I/we would like to suggest a new term that encompasses the full picture of what a Belle Captain would be in Japan and would be used in more formal speech than just "senchou/kanchou". A proper billet title by US terms. We propose the following. "Mikoshibune-no-Kanchō". (神輿船の神長) Roughly in English (Holy) Captain of the (Portable) Shrine Ship. Now some of this is just a twist in terms of translating Japanese into English, and translating Japanese *concepts* into English. So let's take it from the top. A Mikoshi or portable shrine (what you see at shrine festivals being carried around) is a temporary residence for the kami. A shrine's location itself is part of what makes it important after all, and ships move. Further, if you permanently enshrined a warship, even with an avatar of said kami present (the Belle) you'd probably deeply piss said original god off if said ship got sunk. All of this flows nicely from the perspective of State Shinto. Most, if not all of the major warships were named for features like mountains and rivers, which would already have their own cults within Shinto. There's even precedents, both for Mikoshi being dipped into a nearby lake or the surf at a shore line, and for Mikoshi being installed on boats. Kanchō is a bit more subtle in this instance, and is deriving extra meaning from the term "Kannushi" (神主), a term for a Shinto priest which translates out to "God Master" in a somewhat literal reading. Kanchou written as "艦長" is a warship's captain. If we change that reading to "神長" you still get "Kanchou"but the meaning is more literally read as "Head of God" similar to Kannushi. A further way to refer specifically to a IJN Belle Captain, or to the captain of a Japanese Belle with the above billet, as distinct from "kanchou" in spoken Japanese would likely include the honorific prefix "o", as in okanchou (御艦長). This indicates the more specific religious tone, and could also be applied specifically to to an individual's rank. This signifier becomes yet more important in mixed company, say with the conventional captains of a Belle captain's fleet. 天皇陛下万歳
  15. Dunno mate, seems like Stewart wants a a handsome man with a forgiving personality, so that's not necessarily a one or the other proposition. Beautiful people can have personalities too you know. ;). Maybe if you're forgiving enough it'd make up for some lacking in the looks department? Being a goober is no crime, and Belfast is definitely one. At least how I use it, which is a silly kind of cute. Consider a serious and sharp eyed lass who immediately turns into a blushing puddle if you express your feelings to her.
  16. Nagato wants a captain who's disciplined, cultured and fearless... I need to see a man about sending a war spirit a bayonet and a letter. While I look into the details of transpacific air mail while half the Pacific is on fire can I just say that Stewart's insistence on a *forgiving* Captain is all kinds of concerning?
  17. Dmnt and Pac are very much on point here, translating Japanese accents in general is incredibly difficult. "Color" and "Colour" really don't do the issue any justice.
  18. Legate if this gets enough of a response it might be fun to stick it in somewhere. Perhaps as part of a lead in to an actual scene. Captain: "I pulled the knife out of my leg, taking care not to show any pain, I looked her in the eye, and I said, "I bet you wish you'd brought a gun."" Redacted: "Dear Lord, please don't do such risky things with such a risky Belle in the future. Redacted2 is... unstable on a good day. Now... on to further business *actual plot starts*
  19. 2 of course. Certain Belles are like wild animals in a sense, if you show weakness, they'll kill you.
  20. They did, but the experts in knocking small fast moving objects out of the skies would be the destroyers and cruisers specialized for AAA duty.
  21. The argument can be made that destroyers and light cruisers should be the defender/goal keepers acting as radar/sonar pickets.
  22. Are there any belles who can't work with each other? Obviously there's personality clashes and nationalistic tensions, but are there belles that simply cannot be allowed near each other without risk of violence or issues in combat? Conversely do certain belles work better together than other belles?
  • Create New...