freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yeah, I thought it was something like that. I can still start them (and finish if it's in one action) but trying to continue them causes them to fail. I would have loved to see Y1 as it was originally envisioned. I vaguely remember talk about summer vacation in Y1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 The reason for that is because unless an adventure has a specific starting/ending date defined (which it only does if it isn't available starting on Juvenalia) it can technically be started during the summer months. Success/Failure continuations, though, always end on Kaliri 28 unless they're context based, i.e. if they can be finished in the one turn. I imagine that was planned, otherwise the summer months wouldn't have been coded in. What all else was cut from the game? I know of complication events, Rimbal and probably at least a portion of crafting/enchanting, what else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yeah, those are gone. Fighting monsters was planned for when you were exploring certain locations for the first time. (and probably will make it into Y2) The circle of broken stones had an air daemon, and the sunken palace had the gudafsra, although all enounters were transformed into written victories if you passed a skill exit. You can see the monsters in the modtools, although it's dummied out. There are several backgrounds (that would give you spells or wands at the very beginning) that aren't accessible. And several skills wound up getting removed in favor of later years. (Most of which we don't know about) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 There's at least one deleted skill - Conspicuousness - that's still listed in several of the NPC student's AI tables. I'm sure there's at least one more like that, but I don't remember which student has it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 You should check in the skills section of the modtools. There are many skills labeled "DELETE" although only some of them are named. Some of the more interesting ones include True Speech, which according to the legate is Draconic. Lots of interesting tidbits to learn for those who dig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Oh, I've definitely seen the list of DELETE skills. The issue is that none of them give a hint as to what they once were. Well, not directly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Well, I certainly learned I have a good reason to play a few more rounds of the game for sure. I'm really worried about the level of savescumming I might force myself to do in order to pull off something better than what I already have, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Honestly, even if you perform the exact same actions you could still end up better or worse due to Random Number God shenanigans. One method for improvement is risk taking and getting lucky, but consistent improvement is a matter of risk management. Just out of curiosity, what backgrounds do you start with? Maybe there's an opening for improvement there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Hmm. I don't think that we've ever really discussed the backgrounds. I go with attribute-heavy backrounds in order to minimize time spend raising skills in the beginning, especially since I don't do most adventures until some time just before midterms. Astrology:The Comet +1 luck Omen:Shattered Mirrors +1 intellegence Family:Sports. +1 Fitness History: Decended of traitors. (Free point! ) Deed: Lonely Sentinel +1 Strength Prodigy: Spiritual +1 insight (I need at least one extra in the beginning even though it's the most common attribute reward) Prodigy: Life of Avarice +1 Finesse. Prodigy: Center of Attention +1 Charm Friendships: Actually Bitter hatred (Free point!. I reload if I get phillipe or Joana affected though) That gives me a bonus of 1 to every attribute. Plus their associated minor skill increases. Then I have 5 points left over for the "regular attribute" choice stuff, and I usually pick 2 Strength, 1 luck, 1 Fitness, and 1 Charm, though it varies depending on my tastes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I figured you're have a layout like that. One moment while I process... ...Done: -BACKGROUNDS-01. Talent: +1 Charm02. Talent: +1 Fitness03. Talent: +1 Luck04. Talent: +1 Strength05. Talent: +1 Strength06. Astrology: The Comet+1% Chance of Success to all Actions, +1 Luck, +1 Pure Luck07. Omen: Shattered Mirrors+1% Chance of Success, +1 Intelligence, +2 Leadership, +1 Oratory08. Family: Sports+1 Fitness, +1 to two Random Rimbal Skills, +1 to two Random Athletics Skills09. Deed: Lonely Sentinel+1 Strength, +1 Hunting, +1 Scouting, +1 Relationship with Gwendy Zuyder10. Prodigy: Centre of Attention+1 Charm, +1 Leadership, +1 FlirtingF1. History: Descended of Traitors-2 Relationship with 10 Random Students11. Prodigy: Life of Avarice+1 Finesse, +1 Conceal, +1 Composure, +1 Move Silently, +1 Negotiate,-1 Temperance MAX, -1 Character MAX, A Hot Time (Adventure)F2. Friendships: Actually, Bitter Hatred+2 stress, -5 Relationship with a Random Morvidus Student12. Prodigy: Spiritual+1 Insight, +1 Awareness, +1 Ethics, +1 Art Appreciation----COLLEGE-Aranaz----CLASS LOAD-*Calligraphy-0.97 Hybrid Distribution*History-0.80 DistributionGlamour-0.90 DistributionIncantation-0.95 DistributionNegation-0.99 Hybrid DistributionRevision-0.97 Distribution----ATTRIBUTES-+Fitness : 3+Finesse : 2+Charm : 3-Strength : 4+Intelligence: 2-Insight : 2-Luck : 3----SET SKILLS-+1 Art Appreciation+1 Awareness-1 Character MAX+1 Composure+1 Conceal+1 Ethics+1 Negotiate+1 Flirting+1 Hunting+3 Leadership+1 Move Silently+1 Negotiate+1 Oratory+1 Pure Luck+1 Scouting-1 Temperance MAX----RANDOM SKILLS-+1 Athletics (2×)+1 Rimball (2×)----STRESS/VITALITY-Stress : 2/6Vitality: 4/6----CHANCE OF SUCCESS/FAILURE/DETECTION-+2% CoS (all)----PARENTAL APPROVAL-PA: 000SM: 000----RELATIONS-+1 Relationship with Gwendy Zuyder-2 Relationship with random student (10×)-5 Relationship with random Morvidus student----ITEMS-N/A----LOCATIONS/VISITATION RIGHTS-N/A----SPELLS/PHEMES-N/A--- That'd be a statblock for your character's staring values, and I have to say, it's silly. +12 attributes? Absolutely crazy. As for improving it, though, well, let's start with the fact that your Strength is the highest attribute while it's keyed to nothing. What are you even doing with all that strength? You're clearly not using the Library of Manetele, since you're in Revision class, so... It honestly also makes me feel much better about my planned modifications to the DLC 17 mod base as soon as I get it, because a blanket +7 attribute points and 10 Background points that will never increase attributes directly produces much less silly results than that. More set skill points at the start, definitely, but no attributes that are that high on the outset without serious investment and subsequently throwing others under a bus. Edited September 13, 2015 by Metis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Regardless, I'm amazed that with items and and emotions, my attributes at the end of Y1 in my last serious game were Fitness 9 Finesse 9 Charm 7 Strength 8 Intelligence 12 Insight 13 Luck 9 Yet, Svink posted a pic on the forum somewhere that makes my accomplishment rather...meager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 That's barely worse than my last savescumming and class-skipping character had come Kaliri 28. How'd you manage that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I did mange to do lots of adventures, but I think a small part of it is a careful consultation with the wiki for attribute raising abilities that coincided with my favorite random event exit skills. That and items and emotions. I'm not sure how many classes give attributes at study 10 but mine give quite a few as well. Attributes were a high priority to me because as an omni who raises all sorts of skills, I *need* them to keep all those training modifiers down, doubly so because as I don't skip classes my action slots are severely limited compared to *cough* certain players. You'll probably find that my list of developed skills are far, FAR less than a class skipper, but I got all the skills that are important for me. Ambush 4 Arithmetic 0 (This skill actually is my top priority for summer break in Y2) Art 4 Astrology 14 (Not a class skill. Library of the Mantle of stars is what I use, despite it's relative "weak" library status) Athletics 10 (This surprised me, too.) Befriend 2 Beguile 2 Blackmail 2 Botany 5 (Study the fields a couple times when you lose access to the venalicium from overuse in the first month. It's "easy") Brew 0 Bully 1 Calligraphy 11 (Aranaz, Aranaz, go, go go!) Compete 7 (useful for merit race. Give that double increase means less spent actions overall, but only if RNG is friendly to raise.) Dialectic 1 Duel 1 Economy 1 Enchant 10 (Non class magic skill. Used the Library of the Mantle of stars for most training it.) Engineering 0 Enspell 10 (A pain in the ass to unlock and raise, and not too useful (yet) I think of it as the legal Gates and Mastery.) Espionage 1 (Need to raise to 4 to get rid of "Temptation of Gates") Explore 3 Forge 6 (basically Free skills from the library of Mantele) Gates 10 (Selective focus the tougher subskills and train on a long weekend or two at the end of the year) Geometry 1 Glamour 11 (Glamour class skill) Gossip 2 Grammar 1 Heraldry 2 History 11 (ARRRRAAANNAAAAAAZZZ!!!!) Incantation 11 (Incantation class skill) Language 5 Law 0 Malice 2 Mastery 10 (Same as Gates) Music 1 Nat. Philosophy 3 Negation 14 (Negation class skill) Patrol 0 Plot 10 (Concentration is free from longshade, most of the rest came from random events) Raid 1 Religion 3 (Don't know how, likely random) Research 15 (I am totally prepared to do research actions for lores in Y2 when they become valuable) Revision 14 (Revision class skill) Rhetoric 6 (another surprise) Rimbal 0 Sabotage 3 School Survival 5 (I actually have 2 subskills at 10, need to work on that) Sleight-of-hand 7 (another skill that needs some easy polishing) Society 10 Spy 1 War 3 Zoology 1 (I may put a little tme here in Y2 for sake of Gates research.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I did mange to do lots of adventures, but I think a small part of it is a careful consultation with the wiki for attribute raising abilities that coincided with my favorite random event exit skills. That and items and emotions. I'm not sure how many classes give attributes at study 10 but mine give quite a few as well The classes that up attributes are Dialectic/Glamour/Music/Negation/Revision/Zoology (for Insight/Insight/Intelligence/Luck/Finesse/Fitness), so you get +3 from classes. Attributes were a high priority to me because as an omni who raises all sorts of skills, I ^need* them to keep all those training modifiers down, doubly so because as I don't skip classes my action slots are severely limited compared to *cough* certain players. You'll probably find that my list of developed skills are far, FAR less than a class skipper, but I got all the skills that are important for me. Oh definitely. Even so, let's take a look... Bully 1, Forge 6 and Raid 1 -And yet your highest attribute at the start is Strength. Really, why do you need all the Strength? That you need it to lower training modifiers sure, but you don't seem to use it at all unless you have like Brute Strength 10... Enspell 10 (A pain in the ass to unlock and raise, and not too useful (yet) I think of it as the legal Gates and Mastery.) -You get all Enspell subskills unlocked during Oan's little spellcasting tutorial if you pass the Memorization check. So I assume that you pick the Creativity non-option for Playfulness? Espionage 1 (Need to raise to 4 to get rid of "Temptation of Gates") -Why it rather than Dispassion? One is a subskill, one is a parent skill. Or do you intend to become a spy? Plot 10 (Concentration is free from longshade, most of the rest came from random events) -Concentration is an Enspell subskill, Plot is Coordination/Dedication/Flawless Timing/Reason. Arithmetic 0 (This skill actually is my top priority for summer break in Y2) -Why? Interested in Arthmancy or...however that was spelled ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legate of Mineta Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Free; 1, Can Mastery be used in lieu of Glamour in creating 'Illusions'? At least as far as for a single individual, Yes. 2, Say, that by the end of Y2 I never increased my Revision past what it is now, although all my other magic skills increased. Will this spellcasting experience still allow me to have longer durations with my Revision spells? It depends on the level, actually. I am not entirely sure. 3. Is my skill of 10 in all pillars enough to cast 'most' of the important 'comfort' magics? or can some of them get really advanced? Some can be pretty advanced, but the 'comfort' magics are definitely skewed to the lower levels, if only because a lot of magical research has been applied to making them as simple as possible for constant use. 4. What is the longest amount of time that a person has ever taken to cast a spell? That is recorded, anyway... I think there's a Lore about that. 5. What other places on the map are affected by the current of embers? Mineta is really the only one, although it does pass through the Wall, of course. From time to time, the Current can shift north or south, but it never deviates from where the Wall is. 6. What kind of personality, and style of teaching does professor Ringraeyer have? I can tell that from her description that she's a diplomatic and reasonable person, and perhaps this is intentional given that we're talking about a Hedi professor, but... unlike von Rupprecht and his Machiavellian plans, Briardi and her caring persona, Aventyrare being an adult child, Knoht being absent-minded, Viada being the functional alcoholic storyteller, Sido being the cool, sober storyteller, I just don't get a read on Ringraeyer. It occurs to me that the Painting adventure has only one step with her in it, and to my knowledge that might be it for a non-Hedi student. I cannot say. You would have to come to a conclusion on her character yourself... 7. Which two pillars are the most commonly mixed in 'modern' spellcasting? Hmmm. Probably Incantation and Glamour, or Revision and Glamour. 8. What are the common numerological numbers associated with death and/or doom? That is a great question- I'll have to ask! 9. What is the worst alcohol related incident at the academagia, at least in recent memory? Hahaha! There's at least one which happens in Y1....as to ones in the past, I think we have to make that discoverable, perhaps in 17. 10. How often do accidents happen to ruin wands? Fairly common, especially amongst the lower years, and if you include 'accidents'. Metis; That also should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Sweet . Going to have have one heck of an Aranaz kid, then. All the student relationship penalties! Hey, at least he deserves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 I have strength high simply because it's effectively imposssible for me to raise. It isn't effective for min/maxing but I make an honest effort to avoid doing that on purpose. I like well-roundedness and that's why strength is high in the beginning. I was not aware of those Enspell unlocks during the tutorial. I personally have planned to get them done by irregular study at the incantor's workshop traditionally. It is one of those places where I find it acceptible to reload once or twice if RNG is too stubborn. I already have other subskills for espionage raised to 3 so the effort involved to get to 4 is not too high, and I think that having high espionage can't hurt my roleplay as I get involved deeper and deeper with Proscribed magics, and having to rely on subterfuge to evade certain... people. You're right on plot. My bad.It's all from random events and probably my intentional raising to get through some adventure steps. Arithmancy is something that can be applied to all pillars, and looks like it can increase the potency of magic by a fair bit, so, yes I overlooked it in Y1 but I will get that skill raised! (Especially if I like classes with it as a prerequisite.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yeah, you really have to do the Pirate side of the main quest if you want a ton of Strength, among other things. Still, is deliberate gimping dressed as avoiding min-maxing really better? Yes, Strength isn't useful at the start, but do you really have to shoot it into the stratosphere because of that rather than just not allowing it to be used as a dump-stat? Strength 2 or 3 at the start is fine, really. Besides which, you make an honest effort to avoid min-maxing while you do pick 0 backgrounds that don't hand out an attribute point or background point with which you get an attribute point? I mean I'm not going to judge, obviously, but even so I detect a slight error in consistence here... Success on that Memorization roll unlocks the entire Enspell skillset. Noted it during my DLC 16 guide and everything. Of course the Creativity non-option is great for Playfulness, since that paves the way for Bon Vivant. Good point. I'd say put effort into Danger Sense as well, but, eh...that skill. Training it is the equivalent of time murder... Wouldn't expect anything less from an Aranaz student . Unfortunately I don't think there's a quick way to raise or become Informed of the skills. At least Selective Focus works wonders of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Well, What can I say. I start with 3 in strength, which is not gimping. I get +1 from well toned in Athletics, which is kind of a fluke.+1 from the sword of kush, +1 from the severed chain, and +2 from hant's bracelet. All of the items I got from adventures. I don't really see where you're going here. Besides, even if I had gotten all permanent increases, I don't see 8 as being in the stratosphere. It's also really useful to have it that high for rolls in skills you don't focus on, (for adventures and events that don't have magic exits) It's fair to say that about my background choices but I will comment that every single one of them fits my idea of roleplay (deed:sentinal is a precursor to my hunting puppet strings, and even prodigy:center of attention makes sense if you consider it an effect from the crazy adventures being done, and not a conscious choice) and quite frankly the other backgrounds are really underwhelming in comparison. There's a reason why most of the attribute enhancing ones were actually player-introduced in the writer's corner. I also feel that it is necessary for me to *erhem* compete with the absolutely ridiculous characters some forumites have (I'm not naming names, you all know who you are! ), and background choices are not my personal moral button. (Perhaps the most honest answer is that I can't afford not to pick them? But I won't give up on my refusal to skip classes, you delinquents!) Note that I could have went overboard and picked the sky pirate background instead of a point of charm from the generic attribute pool. I didn't and that along with other similar decisions were based purely on roleplaying. So there. I have the arithmetic skills mostly unlocked from careful choices. Once I get I think properties to 1 or 2 it unlocks practice math and that is a decent action (If not spectacular) for unlocking and raising, but then it depends on how summer break allows you to do things, and if there aren't tutors, so we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) I'm going in the direction of "this here idiot can't count to 3", because somehow I have managed to fail counting to 3 and instead counted to 4. Really, I just hope that the Arithmetic Adventure accurately reflects the fact that I hate it. I think you're underestimating a few backgrounds there, but if you're fine with them, I mean, sure, I guess? I would like to see how you'd go through CC with my intended modifications of "get 7 background points to spend solely on attributes and 10 on actual backgrounds that do not directly increase attributes ever (including Paradoxus' little pre-Juvenalia adventure)" that I'll probably be implementing in my modded DLC 17 base when that becomes available. On one side you'd be missing out on 5 attribute points, but on the other side, all the character and skill increases forever pretty much. I'll actually be posting some stuff later, methinks, to maybe get some ideas. Sad to say but that's the worst example ever, because +10% CoD - especially for a Gates/Mastery mage - is closer to a flaw than a background . Recall the Forbidden Archives? A Sky Pirate is looking at a base 27% CoD per trip, and you need a minimum of one if you're going for all Gates skills without Diavesque or Book of Gates Mastery - you've a better chance of getting caught than learning the one skill you need. You can say you didn't pick Prodigy: Battle-Born, though - +1 Endurance and +5% CoS at Hostile would probably come in handy, even if it doesn't in Y1 . Practice Math is Arithmetic parent skill 1. It also makes Dive Into Arithmetic profoundly useless. Legate! One round of buffs for the Dive Into line of abilities from Prodigy: Mathematical Genius, please. They need it, and costing a Background point, deserve it! EDIT: If I modded one of the Friendships backgrounds that give +1 relationship to six random students of some category (male, female, Godina or random) to instead give +1 relationship to the same student six times, how would the save converter interpret this? Not going to do something that silly, but I was curious . Edited August 2, 2015 by Metis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 That mod actually sounds really interesting, but I am unlikely to touch anything outside of the vanilla game just so my saves are always good. I'm picky that way. I personally think that your way is the way to go. I would LOVE to pick the library background for example, so I have visitation rights to the libraries I use so much without risk of detention, but it just is not practical at all for powergaming (and I freely admit I push the envelope pretty hard. I just don't want to be that guy who goes too far...) I actually was thinking of the skill increases you get. I totally forgot about about the COD increase. Of course keep in mind that my earlier saves did not have any significant Gates or Mastery skills and it's the team dragging their butts for so long that made me decide "why not" and get the illegal stuff too while waiting for the new year. Just about all of the backgrounds have been around for several DLCs now and I did the same even before Gates and Mastery was an issue for me. Edit: You really hate arithmetic yet your avatar picture is of a math-geek? Irony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 It's unfortunate that I'll never be able to make it available for download, since I'd have to upload the entire rest of DLC 17 and everything along with it due to the way that Y1 mods work . On the bright side, that allows me to incorporate all the small mods (and not-so-small mods) I have and be able to run everything with just the one modded file . That should be helpful for something (especially because it allows me to do things like mod the vanilla Sphinx into teaching 4 SS/turn that isn't randomly Gates or Mastery! Or Mental Bridging! Or Research levels, maybe, I'm not sure. Either way it'll be awesome!). And don't worry about pushing the power gamer envelope - you've got a long way to go before you cross a noticeable line... It has a few skill increases, sure, but the +10% CoD is what really makes it a flaw. Like, Sky Pirates is the one attribute-increasing background I'd never pick over a blank Talent because that CoD increase is just...insane. Completely insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legate of Mineta Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 And, for numerology: "There are different traditions - and different stories - underlying some of these numbers, but the most common numerological portents of bad times are probably 11, 21, and 777. The number 4 has very ancient associations with death as well, but over the centuries it somehow came to suggest particular kinds of death: lovers' suicides, or merciful releases from pain. Not good, to be sure, but not necessarily to be feared - and symbolically more transformative than catastrophic." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Fun Facts: The fourth card in the Marat Court is La Signora D'Ombra - the Dark Lady or the Lady in Shadow.She appears in black, beneath a moonless night sky, a wand in either hand; sometimes a child is clutching the hem of her robes, but usually she appears to be alone. She represents power in tragedy, and endurance in times of great distress; some speculate she is the half-widow of the Sleeping Emperor (card 5).In some parts of the world, she's also called the Betraying Daughter. The eleventh card in the Marat Court is Le Rovine, the Ruins.The card usually shows a fallen palace - a broken land, where that which came before still dominates the landscape, and where nothing new has grown. It is both a warning and a dare. From that I surmise that Marat symbols were codified post-4 falling out of favor as a general omen of doom and gloom (as opposed to a specific omen of doom and gloom), and after 11 got it's status. I'd also Fun Fact what Tarot's 13th card is, just for a little IRL comparison or something, but it's pretty much common knowledge by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freespace2dotcom Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 Lol, 777, huh. Hope nobody has slot machines in Elumia, hahaha! Curious why that number is what it is.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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