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Interesting idea, but I don't think Natural Philosophy/Brew is enough to learn about molecules, figure that everything is made of the stuff and try to kill someone by way of a magical disintegration spell.

A bonus would be that you wouldn't have to worry about a body to hide or burry!

But all valuables would likely be destroyed aswell. So if they got something you want it isn't an option.

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Hey, the concept of the atom was actually come up with WAAAAAYYY earlier than you would think. Well before Aristotle came up with the 'five elements.'

 

An understanding of atomic bonds took a lot longer, though. Also you probably don't want to risk negating the wrong atomic forces.

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I've been reading this whole thread trying to understand sync better, and all I got from it is that I'm a terrible forbidden magics user X{D I'm part of the group that gives everyone a reason to hate gates and mastery. On a separate note, I'm really happy to hear that I might be able to use mastery for my dastardly deeds still (since when I did the adventure I was totally caught by surprise and took the deal so my future wouldn't be so bleak)

 

Anyway, negation is my milk and honey. Before I jumped off the deep end I used negation as my complete "go to" solution. Even now if I can't use gates or mastery (which is a lot of the time but eh) I use negation. Without my darling negation I would fall to pieces!

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and also negating billion molecules combinaison at the same time might have dire consequence but i have to admit that all thiys scientific discussion made me chuckle.

 

It's Magic! don't try to understand how it works but if it can.

Theory of Incantation and all other Theory skills mentions they are about understanding what happens. It makes you a better mage.

 

One can wonder how deep that knowledge is though.

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Theory of Incantation and all other Theory skills mentions they are about understanding what happens. It makes you a better mage.

 

One can wonder how deep that knowledge is though.

 

You are mixing up magical theory with scientific knowlegde.

 

Even in real life Astrology and Astronomy are not alike (at all). Same in Elumnia

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You are mixing up magical theory with scientific knowlegde.

 

Even in real life Astrology and Astronomy are not alike (at all). Same in Elumnia

In RL maybe, for obvious reasons. But Elumia seems to be a different matter all together, because here magic actualy coexists with the physical world. Natural philosophy and anatomy skills makes you a better healer when using magic, reasoning beign that you understand what needs to be done better.

 

Incantation Theory teaches you that you don't actualy create anything, you just transform that which is to what you need.

 

The application of magic in Academagia seems to be a mixture of magic casting skills and understanding of what you are doing and what needs to be done based on your understanding of the situation.

 

Scientific knowledge, is soemthing we associate with our RL, but some kind of early precursor to that is evolving in the world of academagia.

 

Natural philosophy, anatomy, Chirurgery, biology, archeology, astronomy, mathematics, Geometry, metallurgy and material knowledge. Chemistry, mixed with Alchemy. Gunpowder which is very much non-magical chemistry knowledge.

Steam engines... Those would be products of scientific studies and observation.

 

From what I've seen you do better when you use your knowledge of both to figure out smarter solutions and uses for both regular skills and magic.

 

The world of Academagia is magic heavy, especialy with you playing a wizard student, but it's also got an evolving scientific community and knowledge. It's go Science that's somewhat like 18-19th century science, some of it is more oldfashioned. Then you got wizards who can also add soem enchantments and use other magical tricks to overcome soem scientific shortcommings of the world.

 

I think it's an interestign mixture and I think that a broader understanding would make a wizard a better magic user, a more efficient one than one with equal skills save for the extra understanding of their surroundings.

 

I know it's been mentioned in-game. The faculty encourages the students to learn other skills aswell.

 

As for negating melecular bonds if you were aware of them, the negation field would be limited to the area designated when you cast the spell. If it would create an exotermic reaction or not depends on wether the force is removed as if it never existed for the molecules within that field or if it's disrupted and the force is letloose.

negating a force on a billion molecules probably isn't that much different from negating a million nettle stings pumping arsenik into your skin.

 

The knowledge is questionable however, a chemist would know that the structure of a material can be broken down using acids or basic compounds. You can also heat a material.

Something binds the material together and your manipulation is breaking that bond.

 

Maybe they got soem kidn of concept for it or they don't.

 

But I agree it would surely require quite a bit of creative immagining.

 

But the bottomline is, Academagia is a world that has both magic and some early precursor of science. Science is likely held back a little by the availability of magic, but it also soudns like magic is scarese enough to create a market for other solutions that people who hasn't got a lot of magic skills can use.

Gunpowder, Steamengines, etz.

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i don't see how, what i said contradict your post. What you learn in magical theory is not scientific knowledge. I didn't said that having these knowledge doesn't helps.

 

Edit: understanding the effect of your magic is just common sense, you might understant that you merely transform in incantation doesn't mean you understand what you transform nor you it means you understand energy transfer itself..

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Steam engines are basicly turning heat into kintic energy. The invention requires that understanding.

 

I would say that they do have some understanding of what they are transforming or they wouldn't have invented steamengines. Some understanding is certainly there.

 

I doubt they got Quantum physics however.

 

It seems like Acdemagia magic, is one part magic through phemes and one part mentaldiscipline and creativity, the ability to picture/immagine what you want to do with the spell you just cast. The spells is the enabler, the caster is kind of the catalyst and controller.

 

Someone who knows how to cast the spell but isn't very good at controling it, the theoretical part might not get the same strength out of it as someone who can control the processes better.

 

Given the many different uses for spells it would never work to have all functions and magnitudes of a spell be determiend by the phemes alone. How would you define an area or make sure you don't burn yourself when drying the clothes you are wearing. Or other very detailed needs. There is clearly a mental component.

 

There is also this event where you employ immaginary focus on a spell and it gets better.

 

I agree, knowledge deffinately differs between casters and we don't know exactly what they know and what they know but they seem to udnerstand how to transform heat into kinetic energy. I would also immagine that they have mastered several other transformations to create the other effets skillfully.

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you don't need this to do magic

No, but you need it to be any good at it. Drawing the phemes for a firespell might cause a small flare, but if you're good at it it works a lot better(when you actualy understand, or at least understand it better, what you're doing or trying to do).

 

The difference is, simply doing magic, or doing it well, or mastering it.

 

I think there would also a greater risk for accidents to happen when you try to use things that you don't really understand. Because you arn't really in as much control of it as you should be.

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i don't think it helps that much but hey i was merely saying how it is pointless to try to to explain a phenomenon (magic) with a tool (science) that pretty much says magic is impossible because it would cause a lot of paradox.

I still need an scientifical explanation on how you can teleport instantly an objet trough thousand of miles.

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But, yeah, There can be different levels of understanding, and Magic allows you to do things that you sometimes don't understand fully, but even partial understanding would make it easier for your mind to control the effects.

 

Which is what those Theory skills are tryign to teach you, and there always seems to be mroe for you to learn and you can gey your skill maximums expanded to learn more. But the more you learn he harder it gets to learn even more.

 

Complete understanding, no, I don't think so, todays science hasn't even got complete understanding of everything. Understandign or opinions between scientists can also differ greatly.

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Came to think of it... Hypnosis isn't illegal and doesn't really count as mastery even if you learn if from the mastery studies. It's also a far less invasive procedure. It's almost like a glamour but you gain more contol over them than you likely would with a glamour.

 

It's still a hostile action, like bully or a hostile spell, but not illegal. It might also work on animals and creatures, a wizard used it on a large crowd in the lore.

 

It can probably be used on animals aswell, especialy if you got a good understanding of animals.(even if it isn't in the game mechanics)

 

It might be easier to resist, but it would be an interesting exit for adventures or events where you can use mastery. As a legal if nasty way of getting what you want.

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The captain maybe, but Orso Orsi would likely notice the difference quickly. Mastery victims are also (most of the time) bleading noseblood.

 

Mastery would make an incident a priority, unlike something that isn't mastery.

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  • 2 weeks later...

And now for some of my thoughts on the my last game and character, Mary Sue Jiltins, the ludicrous girl in Godina. Forgive me if I ramble, I'm fresh from 2 hours worth of Academagia and the end was a bit of a marathon.

 

I'll say right now, her playthrough has been absolutely bonkers. As someone so generously informed everyone of, DLC 16 shipped with an old patch which so happens to not have fixed an old bug where you can skip afternoon classes without any fear of being reprimanded for skipping. So for 7 of the 10 ingame months, I did not attend any afternoon class. That's 140 turns not spend on atrociously inefficient afternoon classes sometimes teaching me a skill step or two, but generally nothing. And boy, did that change things. I'll freely admit right now: Yes, I did savescum in addition to abusing that old bug, so don't compare what follows to a character played "fairly". If you think I feel at all guilty you are wrong, I've played Atlus games less BS than Academagia at times, although I think this bug makes us even. Anyway, a summary of the entire year can be found in the spoiler:

 

 

Athonos was spend spamming the Venalicium and training the necessary skills to Befriend who I wanted in my clique. First Neso Ulleri to get +1 Listening and +1 Temperance, which both unlocked the skill for training and gave me Befriend 1. It was a mad race to assemble my clique before my targets were taken, but even with that early boost and spending turns on Train I still didn't manage. Silke Niederstatter, alas and alack, escaped my grasp. In her place I recruited Vuillaume Eparvier, who has a very nice clique ability (if not quite +1 Fitness). I also wanted a third member, but by that time I was left with previous few worthy options. Thankfully I had opened up the Mantle of Stars, so I was in good shape to pick up some skills. Newcomer Miya Hikari was tempting, but her clique ability hits your Ethics and that I did not want, so without any really useful options I ended up recruiting Katja Quinnecht. Miya, BTW, was ultimately befriended by Zorzi. The College windbag being befriended by the guy who's clique ability is a bunch of hot air? Fitting, and I didn't miss either of them. Cirillo Laziosi also invited himself into the clique months later, don't remember when, and I couldn't be bothered to rewrite reality just for him so I ended with a clique of 5.

 

Pramidi was spend spamming libraries like my life depended on it. Actually, random events being what they are, it did. Since I wasn't enrolled in Revision I needed to use the Manetele to train that to a reasonable level, I needed to study at the Mantle of Starts to get Sparkling Fields and The Hidden Meaning of Buildings, to unlock Architecture in case I need it during the Dance of Fools (I didn't), and of course the Venalicium since exam month was getting closer and closer. I managed to Tidy Longshade in the last week, and I spend a while there trying to unlock Creativity for The Festival of Pixies. Alas, it was not to be, but than I did unlock Practical Jokes earlier. Fun Fact: I managed to finally get Creativity like 5 months later, and at Kaliri 28 it's still sitting at 1. The Dance of Fools is always an intimidating roadblock, but I managed to successfully get through it, getting the +1 Charm.

 

Gelamenus was more of the same. The amount of turns not spend either in class or a library could probably be counted on two hands, maybe even one. Most of it was to prepare to finish Oan's adventure in as few turns as possible, which was successful. While working on that I did manage to get my Everard Equation high enough to successfully use Fire Spread, and I also sold the Caramel Chews for a Doppleganger Band and a Pendant of Persuasion. Beyond that, though? Libraries. Lots and lots of libraries.

 

Cheimare was the point where afternoon classes were declared a thing of the past. Exam moths have the unfortunate effect of making classes absolutely worthless, and classes up to that point gave me enough to at least not flunk out on midterms, so I decided to call it good. Instead, even more time was spend in libraries, the fist week being used to get my Wit up to snuff to start abusing the Sphinx. The second week was spend getting Playfulness up for Bon Vivant. The third week was spend Selective Focus training Composure, since it's a skill I like and I know I'll need it high later anyway. The last week was spend Selective Focus training Diplomacy, which had come up an uncomfortable amount of times previously.

 

Hionoshi started with a familiar pattern of "Attend Class, Sphinx, Library of Whatever". Maybe an adventure here and there, but yeah, mostly skill training. The second week started what would become a familiar pattens until months later. The five school days spend attending morning classes, the afternoon spend with the Sphinx, and the evening spend on an adventure. The weekends were spend visiting the Sphinx bright and early, spending the rest of the day reading in Longshade. Those 6 turns worth of skill steps were badly needed. There were a few points where this pattern wasn't followed, but for the most part the second, third and last week of Hionoshi followed this pattern exactly.

 

Nivelos was pretty much the pattern in action, with only a few deviations. Namely solving the Block Puzzle, burning some stress after an adventure pushed me into dangerous (read: over 1) levels of stress, and not much else. Mostly, it was spend training for and going on tons and tons of adventures.

 

Aruit was where I finally bothered to train up to Zoology 5 and start training my bat Familiar. The pattern finally got a different form, with Match Wits and Improved Familiar Handling alternating from day to day. Even so, adventures galore. Skill steps were piling up, awesome loot was piling up, and so where my attributes. And my money. My gods was I swimming in money.

 

Veranix pretty much followed the same pattern. Train Familiar, adventure, Match Wits, adventure, repeat.

 

Anedius started the same, but midway through the pattern changed one last time: the Sphinx and Longshade had taught me pretty much everything I cared to learn and that I could learn well enough to put to use in a timely manner. So, starting from Anedius 16, I no longer visited the Sphinx every other day and instead set out to adventure twice. Embarrassingly enough that quickly forced me back to the Sphinx since I was lacking a few specific skills for my friend's student adventures, but that was what the weekends were for.

 

Kaliri was a bit of a mess as I had to rush to finish all of the adventures I started, but I managed. I put 0 effort in preparing for the finals, but meh, I managed to pass all of them and while it's fun to score a 300 on a Negation exam that probably screws the other students a bit as the class average is slightly wrecked. The rest of the time was spend visiting Gressel's to finally stop walking around looking bruised and bloodied, or however else I'm supposed to envision having 7/18 Vitality. The last few days were spend finally maxing out my Lute so that I might finally use that Master's Miniature Lute. Alas, I managed to max that skill out at the end of Kaliri 27, so the incoming retcon will undo whatever performance I can now give. The rest of the time was spend gazing and maddeningly cackling at what I had amassed.

 

 

In short, those 140 turns made a massive difference. I was able to adventure almost constantly for most of the year, and everything I gathered and learned from that added up to a ludicrously awesome set of stats and a ton of money. I'm particularly pleased with how I managed to end up with a very well balanced set of attributes, Strength and Fitness aside. Here's an impromptu statblock of her on Kaliri 28:

 

Mary Jiltins, female Godina student, class load Athletics/Glamour/History/Incantation/Music/Negation, Bat Familiar.

 

Background (probably):

Astrology: The Comet (+1% Chance of Success to all Actions, +1 Luck, +1 Pure Luck)
Omen: Shattered Mirrors (+1% Chance of Success, +1 Intelligence, +2 Leadership, +1 Oratory)
Family: Sports (+1 Fitness, +1 to two Random Rimbal Skills, +1 to two Random Athletics Skills)
History: Artisans of Skill (+1 Finesse, +1 Artisan, +1 to two Random Forge Skills)
Station: Well-to-Do (+2 in three Random Skills. Allowance of 25 pims per two weeks, start with 50 pims.)
Prodigy: Center of Attention (+1 Charm, +1 Leadership, +1 Flirting)
Prodigy: Spiritual (+1 Insight, +1 Awareness, +1 Ethics, +1 Art Appreciation)
Apprentice: Spy (+1 Finesse, +1 Poisons, Inform all Espionage Subskills, Inform all Blackmail Subskills)

Tutoring: Grifter (+1 Character Study, +1 Persuasion, +1 Manipulation, +1 Conversation, +1 Negotiate, +1 Diplomacy, +5% CoS Social Actions, -25 Pims Allowance)
Familiar Bond: Exotic (random Exotic Familair)

 

 

Attributes:

07 Fitness

-> 4 base, +1 Athletic, +1 Well Toned, +1 Oakheart Branch

11 Finesse

-> 8 base, +1 Master's Miniature Lute, +1 Trap Cunning, +1 Magical Gabardine Coat
10 Charm

-> 5 base, +1 Radiant Presence, +1 Cloak of Beguiling, +1 Affection, +1 Golden, +1 Peaceful Heart
05 Strength

-> 2 base, +1 Well Tones, +2 King Godina's Shield
13 Intelligence

-> 12 base, +1 Learn From Mistakes
12 Insight

-> 8 base, +1 Learn From Mistakes, +1 Understand Strategy, +1 Goose Bumps, +1 Calm
10 Luck

-> 8 base, +1 Opinicus Feather, +1 Bon Vivant

 

Inventory - equipped:

Sympathy for the Butcher (+1 Animal Husbandry, +1 Temperance)

Cloak of Beguiling (+1 Charm, +1 Beguile, +1 Persuasion)

Magical Gabardine Coat (+1 Finesse, +1 Glamour)

Opicinus Feather (+1 Luck, +1 Passion, -10% CoS Negation spells)

Marat Deck

Cat Burglar Gloves (+2 Climbing, +2 Conceal)

Oakheart Branch (+1 Fitness, +1 Revision Methods, +1 Botany)

King Godina's Shield (+2 Strength, +3 War)

Small Sapphire (+2 Persuasion)

Master's Miniature Lute (+1 Finesse, +3 Lute)

Hugging Snake (+1 Befriend, +1 Temperance)

Holly Bough (+1 Pure Luck)

Doppleganger Band (+1 Glamour Methods, -2% CoD)

Troll Forest Ring (+1 Explore)

Astrologer's Eye (+1 Astrology, +3% CoRE) (that's Chance of Random Events, for those wondering)

Certificate of Imperial Favor (void CoD in the Imperial Palace, Room of Decrees, Throne Room, Emperor Sphinx's Room)

 

Inventory - Knapsack:

Robe of Water's Endurance (+1 Endurance, +1 Negation Methods, 670 Pim value)

Theatre Guild Membership Card (unidentified)

Bouquet of Flowers (unidentified)

 

Inventory - Wardrobe:

Letter from Gera 1 through Addendum (collective value: 6 Pims)

Wand of Ahriman's Mission (+1 Strength, +2 Negation Methods, Release A Wave of Power ability, 950 Pim value)

Enchanted Horn (3 abilities I don't care for, 700 Pim Value)

Wand of Fenris (+1 Moons, +1 Concentration, +1 Incantation Methods, +1 Revision Methods, 805 Pim value)

Bridging Stone (+1 Mental Bridging, Concentration, +1 Synchronicity, 200 Pim value)

Acument Plant Seed (+1 Reason for 18 turns) (didn't have that equipped because that isn't a bonus when held - everything I have equipped is)

The Book of Deep Shadows (inform all Mastery subskills, +1 Intelligence for 3 stress for 4 days, 905 Pim value)

Everwine's Drawing (+1 Character for 2 days, 5 Pim Value)

Holiest of Waters (crafting ingredient (I think), 600 Pim value)

9846 Pims in cash.

 

 

Compare that to a character that was also graced with the gift of Save-and-Load Meta Magic, but not with the buggy permission slip to ignore afternoon classes. Those 140 turns made an absolutely massive difference, and frankly it could have made more of a difference if I invested fewer turns into pumping skills so I could pass the "relatively few" adventure I did do without having to worry about failing a roll. And as you can see from the fact that I have Golden, I did this entirely without Cleanse and Remake as well, which apparently is one of the most powerful abilities in the game (never got it myself, never used it, would like to see it in action). That is the power of 140 turns spend not sitting in class learning nothing. I just want to point out that extra classes in Y2 are going to cost 200, and the second are going to cost more than 200 because it'll overwrite "do homework" actions, I believe. I'm just saying, those extra classes had better be the greatest thing since sliced bread if they're going to cost 200 turns, minimum.

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I got this crazy "Peter of house Vernin" character that breaks that in the most insane and impossible way.

 

It got a little confusing when there was this third year called Peter Loxley or what ever and we had an archery contest in which I won.

 

Never mind the third year bully named Peter that was trying to summon Diavesque.

 

Anyway, umm, yeah the stats were crazy in the end and the skill levels were insane and I had slightly more than twice the cash, writing travelogues probably helped aswell. That makes me wonder... I only recieved the 1k pim advance on those travelogues.... When do I get the rest?

 

I think that character might have 80 vitality or something.... So, how long would it take a dragon to seriously injure my character? Maybe it will run out of breath before it gets serious ;)

 

The only thing that character would have to worry about is people getting upset about the mastery and gates skills...

Maybe I should immagine that daddy is the archduke of Mineta(inventing titles) and that anyone raising a hand would get fired immediately and replaced by a bum from the streets, someone who's very grateful!

 

There are also those few who are so powerful in their craft that they arn't bothered as long as they don't present themselves as a serious threat.... Maybe that would be a position to aspire towards.

 

Still, there will be a few more years of studying and learning before that happens I guess.

 

But, yeah, the difference between characters can be enormous. My worst characters barely accomplished anything. But that's nto bad by Academagia standards it would seem.

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...My point is that, thanks to that bug, I've discovered exactly how much 140 turns are worth, and how much 140 turns worth of Attend classes is not worth. Y2's extra classes are slated to cost 200 turns for one set, more than 200 for the second. Just trying to put into perspective that, seeing how useless classes currently are, those extra classes have to be either stupidly amazing in comparison or they'll pretty much be trap options.

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Most adventures (excluding continuous adventures) will give 6-7 skill ups and an ability point for 6-7 adventures - some give (much) more. So 140 turns means that class needs to give 21 ability points + 21 skill-ups + loot to "equal adventure" actions, or around 280+ skill-ups to equal a sphinx (taking into account the no-show boosts from topped out skills and ignoring research gains) - that's a tough ask, although if adventures are to become more fatal perhaps not in the former case.

 

I suspect that Shohanwicht and the extra class will be good in year 2 from a "character" perspective, but lousy for a power-gamer - which is fine if that's the way people want to play their student.

 

Personally I'd have liked them to be actions and an adventure path or two - far easier to decide whether you want to do them or not and in the case of private tutoring allowing the student to really "earn" their professor's support/special teaching, and in the case of Shohanwicht not raising unfortunate questions of "where does X go every wednesday evening?" which would lead to execution if anyone was nosy enough to snoop around - and this is, afterall, the Academagia, someone is always snooping around :D

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Most adventures (excluding continuous adventures) will give 6-7 skill ups and an ability point for 6-7 adventures - some give (much) more. So 140 turns means that class needs to give 21 ability points + 21 skill-ups + loot to "equal adventure" actions, or around 280+ skill-ups to equal a sphinx (taking into account the no-show boosts from topped out skills and ignoring research gains) - that's a tough ask, although if adventures are to become more fatal perhaps not in the former case.

 

I suspect that Shohanwicht and the extra class will be good in year 2 from a "character" perspective, but lousy for a power-gamer - which is fine if that's the way people want to play their student.

 

Personally I'd have liked them to be actions and an adventure path or two - far easier to decide whether you want to do them or not and in the case of private tutoring allowing the student to really "earn" their professor's support/special teaching, and in the case of Shohanwicht not raising unfortunate questions of "where does X go every wednesday evening?" which would lead to execution if anyone was nosy enough to snoop around - and this is, afterall, the Academagia, someone is always snooping around :D

Good points. I don't expect classes to be as good as adventures, I just expect them to not be so useless that going from a perfect attendance record to rampant skipping will make your character significantly better. And for the record, the Sphinx is terrible at actually providing the promised 3 SS per action, even including research levels, which is partially why I'd like to see her back to 4SS/turn. Simply so that she'll actually had out more than Longshade most of the time, cause gods know she currently is terrible at it. No, Extensively Consult is not worth it even if I wanted to get Malice 10, especially because for once I wasn't enrolled in Dialectic.

 

I suspect likewise, honestly, and for all my OCD on efficiency I can respect it. I also do sometimes make certain decisions simply for the sake of roleplay, for example my clique. I had no mechanical reason to befriend Katja. I had her skills covered and her ability was not helpful at all, but I befriended her anyway because I wanted a third skill platform and I dislike having cross-college cliques. It also seemed fitting to have shy, timed and perpetually stressed Neso in the same clique as Katja, who probably reduced Neso's stress quite often. IIRC they had a mutual relationship of at least 5 when I befriended Katja. The thing is, becoming a markedly better student by not attending classes isn't just an issue of efficiency, it's an issue of internal consistency.

 

One thing that consistently amused me during my playthrough was just how a conversation would go every single time I encountered one of the professors who's class I skipped all the damn time. For example, in To The Entrance there's a point where, if you're in History class, you have the option to extract information from Professor Viada under the guise of "it's for a paper". I just imagined my PC walking in his office and the professor raising an eyebrow, saying "How do you even know there's a paper due on the Middle Empire? You haven't been in class for over three months!". And actually, that idea of "where does X go every wednesday evening?" reminds me of an adventure idea I had - what if you're not the one disappearing, but the snooper's friend?

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