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I would certainly prefer it if collected magical knowledge wouldn't change your appearance, I doubt it does. It's one of the things that bothered me with some of the Star wars lore to begin with.



I can see people changing after beign hurt and having to patchup and gettign scars and all kind of things if there is somethign stopping them from being properly healed.


I can also seem some really insane wizard revising himself and doing all kinds of absurd changes to his/her body in the persuit of Power or simply out of insanity.


It's more of a personal preference.


I even Think ME2 overdid that whole temper/ Paragon/Renegade effect on your healing of scars...

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Is that even possible to revise yourself in such a manner? Aside from the fact that it could be really painful, you would probably have to dip into a lot of other pillars of magic.


I wonder what the nost drastic change possible is now

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simple appearance changes should be quite easy

Quite easy and quite useless, considering that such magic is limited in time, dispellable and reversible.


What can be used here, I think, is combination of Revision, some kind of self-Mastery, perhaps other Pillars, enspelling and enchantment. And the ultimate goal should be not to simply revise oneself, but to change "natural state" of oneself. I think, that such change can be achieved intentionally - through different forms of magical self-modification - or unintentionally - as byproduct of regular usage of powerful and complex magic.



I even Think ME2 overdid that whole temper/ Paragon/Renegade effect on your healing of scars...


Oh, let me disagree strongly on that one. You got sloppy, you died, you were brought back as cyborg. Such drastic change of your nature cannot go without noticeable effects on you (both in mind and body). If anything, Bioware severly underplayed such transformation of lead character.

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So what for do you need Mastery?

For alterating features of mind to match transformed body. Also for forging and maintaning bond between transformed mind and transformed body. Mastery is all about manipulating mind and its connections with body after all.


Revision Magic even without enchanting can last for years!


And it is still not enough. The main drawback of revision is the fact that it cannot alter "natural state" of anything, so everything revisioned is one negation away from reverting to its natural state. And we would need such modifications to last for a lifetime or until purposefully modified further.

So really, the main function of Revision here would be sustaining of life inside body throughout the process. Actual modifications to mind and body would require Mastery (as above) and Gates respectively.

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I think this has been asked before, but is it possible to PERMANENTLY alter someone with revision? Like a girl turn herself into a guy permanently, or someone transforming themselves into a squirrel forever.


If that is enchent, then you'd have to wear whatever you enchanted to sustain the spell wouldn't you?

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Permanent Revisions are definitely possible but they are so difficult that I believe it was mentioned that only very small changes are done in that way over time.

What ronikai ask for is only possible by altering the nature of the person and for this we recently got this answer from the Legate:


2) If 1 is correct have anyone tried or even success in change the natural state what should end up in a permanent change? Or is this kind of power beyond the current human understanding or even beyond what magic is able to do?


It is theorized not to be possible. However, [redacted]. Naturally, she was burned at the stake.

So yes it might be possible but is for sure outside of anything a mage can do without years on basic research or lucky find of the documents from the person burned on the stake ;)
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Permanent Revisions are definitely possible but they are so difficult that I believe it was mentioned that only very small changes are done in that way over time.

I think it's mostly possible on living things, where it becommes part of the creatures living energy and indistinguisable as natural healing takes over and sustains the body.


Not sure if such a thing would be possible in Changes that alter a living being, rather than just heal damage done.

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When used to create a statue it might last if the magic was mostly used to remove unwated rock from a slab of rock. Since you didn't reshape or change the basic material, you merely used revision to separate pieces of rock from the parts of it that would become the statue.


Maybe the difference between Shaping and Re-shaping. When Re-shaping the matierial strives to return to it's original shape, but when you have it it's more like cutting a piece of paper or thread in two, there is no natural force pulling it back together.


For a Revision to last I would imagine that the matter or item would have to be at a state of rest where there are no forces trying to make it revert to it's natual form, no waste of energy to retain the current shape. Maybe it's all about energy, if it takes magical energy to retain the shape or spell then it will fade over time.


Enchantments might last longer than most magic because it's more adapted and at rest with the object. The better the enchanter the better the enchantment.


I would expect that the duration is shorter the greater the change is to an object's natural state, dependign on the skill of the Revisionist of course..


Maybe a more advanced skill would be the ability to "feed" the revisioned object some energy to maintain it longer as it's running out.

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Permanent Revisions are definitely possible

Can you provide any in-game information that support this statement?

And even if some revision spell can remain active for indefinitly long time - it is still merely one negation away from reversion.


So yes it might be possible

Or it might be not. As far as we know, only Gates magic has the power to create and alter self-sustained life (namely - through utilization of Heart and, possibly, Spirit phemes).

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There are a couple of places where I suspect, but nothing concrete. One example is an enchantment (of revision) that doesn't end like it is supposed to. In "miles to go" if you pick enchant, you basically get enchanted boots.

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As mentioned Revision spells can last years so if the spell duration is more then 5 years its as good as a permanent item for the game.

Also BCS can replace enchanted items with the base version at the import function by declaring the duration of the enchantment have ended.

(might happen to the Holly Wand at the start of Year 3 as it wasn't planed to be a permanent item)

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I did it


Just finished a game where my char had all possible class skills except Athletics, Calligraphy, Grammar and Rhetoric at 10 or more.

Rhetoric can even be 10 in year 2 depending how the clique ability of Grainne changes (is -2 Character in year 1).


For a Morvidus student the character was kind of strange with a strong mathematic focus as he took Arithmetic, Astrology, Geometry and Negation for the free class choice.

Except for Zoology (only 12) all class main skills ended with 14 or more (without items but with other permanent bonus).


At start the char was really problematic as I didn't get Insight up but I still managed a Mid Term exam of 100 in the 3 magic skills and 50 in the 3 other class skills (not using magic then).

In the end year exam all 3 magic skill exam where past 200 (used Create Star Chart for Astrology to get there 270), Arithmetic and Geometry where 170 (used Pheme to add 30 to both), only Zoology ended with a low 122 but still was the best of this year.

Oh and I ended in having all 4 Gates skills also at 10...*hide*


I wonder what will be possible with the new training facility in the next DLC.

Maybe in combination with the current engine a char with all possible class main skills at 10 could become a reality?

(Perhaps its already possible as I spend a lot of timeslots on Elegant Service, Adventures, Cleanse and Remake and also not optimise my chars to the degree Freespace do)

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Wow. Impressive!


Was that a class skipping run?


Apart from class skipping, I think the main difference between us is that since I am looking for specific skills I am willing to use abilities that are less efficient so long as they still raise the ones important to me. You go for all inclusive, which definitely makes me feel a little insignificant but I suppose it's not too bad.


We definitely have different approaches. I like taking Pillar classes even though some of them (like Revision) are easy to raise outside of them, because:


1. I think the study bonuses for the classes are important.

2. Since we will only be able to test out of a limited number of prerequisite classes and I am going to take a lot of varying classes, I want to be sure that I can take any pillar class that I want in Y2.

3. I also really like the stories. ESPECIALLY Revision class' adventure.


Who knows what DLC 17 will bring, though? Let alone Y2. We all may find that our present chars are too tweaked to take advantage of Y1 that it hurts us too much in Y2. We'll see...

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As mentioned this char was from Morvidus and so had Revision and Zoology as forced class.

And yes it was a bug exploiting play trough with Revision, Zoology and Arithmetic in the afternoon class slot.

Negation instead of Arithmetic in the afternoon would have be better for exploiting the bug but didn't want to reroll the char generation.


For me Astrology is one of the class I want to have because of the adventure ^^.

Zoology as class I skipping is helpful as I want to have it to 11 early for getting a familiar, this time I got the mole what is a interesting familiar for a crafter.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Finished a other game this time with all possible class main skills except History at 10+.

It was a really strange play trough with a Vernin as I had no spell casting class!

Class where Arithmetic, Enchant, Dialectic, Geometry, Grammar and Zoology.


I was even best in all the final Exam without needing to cast a spell but for some it might end not be the best when add the mid term and the adjustments some student get in Y2.

Ohh and Bond and Athletics of the familiar ended at 8 because of the difficult familiar adventure.

But I had to make some compromises like only 3 skills of Astrology are trained, Phemes in Negation and Glamour are only at 6/5 , Theory of Revision only at 8


For year 2 this char also have build a 10 Relationship with the Legate, the Hedi and Durand Regent.

I think this char will replace my old flexible char.


I'm now sure someone who aim more on skill training instead of train gate, collect favor and adventures can end with all possible class skill at 10 but for me the price get to high.


(@Freespace yes it was again a bug exploiting game)

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...Yeah, I figured it must have been another class skipping game. Still... Congrats! That's pretty crazy, although yeah, it seems you've stretched your char to the utter limits with that playthough. I don't think that limiting yourself to 3 skills in Astrology to get a 10 is a good idea, though, because it might turn out that the skills you want to raise your parent skills beyond 10 in Y2 might just be the ones you kept at 0. Although my character skill preferences are pretty wide, my skills are not anywhere near as all over as yours are. I'm hoping that the focus I have on going only after the solid magical skills compared to your all-inclusiveness will allow me to push those skill levels higher than yours, at least in the skills we both go after, even if you might beat mine in every other.


Have you ever done a Mastery playthrough yet? It might be worth it do do one for the story reasons. Although as was noted already it's damn near impossible to get Gates and Mastery together on a single run, let alone with all the other skills you were going for, so maybe you should go for that with a different character in mind?. (on the run I started this thread on, my Mastery Spells subskill is at 9, but only because I redid 27 kaliri to rest instead, so as to start Y2 stress free.)


I also agree that the price is just too high to aim only on skills. The amount of adventures I did in Y2 were vital to raise my attributes so that I could do more skill raising in less time, and I'm absolutely sure that my choice on that issue will pay dividends in later years as well! Building relationships with the instructors can be a very vital part of success in future years too, so I think that anybody who goes beyond what my character did in a perfect attendance run, or else what yours did in a class skipathon run. (perfect non-attendance? Maybe you'll pioneer a new way to teach at the Academagia, by getting to do absolutely nothing! :) ) will actually hurt their ability in the long run at the end of Y5.


What are the attributes for this new character of yours? Or do I really want to know? :)

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Fit 10 +1 Emotion

Fin 8 +1 Item

Cha 10 +1 Emotion

Str 4 + 1 Item

Int 17 +1 Item

Ins 14 +1 Emotion

Luck 6 +1 Item +1 Emotion +1 Temp +1 Clique


Class Skills



Arithmetic 15 Theory of Arithmetic 10 rest 11

Dialectic 11 Logic 10 -2 clique rest 11

Enchant 12 +2 Theory of Enchantment 10 rest 11

Geometry 13 Famous Geometry Problems 10 rest 11

Grammar 14 Famous Poetry 10 +2 item Famous Prose 10 Semantics 13 Syntax 12

Zoology 12 Amphibians 1 Fish & Worms 10 rest 11



not taken class skills



Astrology 11 +2 Item +1 Emotion Planets & Stars 10 Theory of Astrology 11 rest 3 or 4

Athletics 10 Competition & Wrestling 10 Running 11 rest 4 or 3

Botany 13 Seeds 3 rest 10 +2 item

Calligraphy 11 Forgery 11 Forms 11 Orthography 11

Glamour 11 +1 item Glamour Methods 10 +1 item Spells & Theory 10 Phemes 6

Incantation 11 Spells 12 rest 11

Music 12 Famous Songs 3 Voice 10 Rest 12

Negation 13 +5 item Methods 13 +7 item Phemes 7 Spells 11 +4 item Theory 12

Revision 14 +2 item Methodes 11 +1 item Phemes 13 + 1 items Spells 11 +1 item Theory 8

Rhetoric 12 +2 item Character 10 Confidence 12 +2 Emotion +1 clique Passion 11 +1 item



other skills 10+



Beguile 10 Flirting 4 rest 10

Brew 11 Alchemical Tools 9 + 3 clique Analyze 9 +1 clique Chemistry 9 +2 clique

Forge 12 Weaponsmith 13 Armorer & Metalurgy 11 rest 10

Gates 10 all 10

Plot 10 +2 item Dedication 11 + 1 item Flawless Timing 10 Reason 12

Religion 10 +1 Emotion Ethics, Oratory, Piety, Theology 10 Prayer 8

Research 13 Library Knowledge 11 Cryptology & Filling 10 Rest 5

Sabotage 12 Artisan 12 Perception 15 +1 item Playfulness 10 +2 Emotion

School Survival Curiosity, Familiar Kinship & Test-Taking 10 Study Habits 8 +1 item rest 6 or 4

Society 12 Awareness 12 Persuasion 12 Willpower 10 rest 4 or 1

War 11 Strategy 11 Famous Battles & Leadership 10 Logistics 9 rest 7 or 1




For a Mastery game I wait for DLC 17

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@albert: Purple Wizard of Tai is a background suggestion from me you can find it in the Writer's Corner if you want to look already.

With class skipping you should be able to get even more done. Selective focus is very important.

As mentioned I would have to reduce the number of Adventures, build up of the familiar and build up & use favor to get even better skills but the price would get to high for my taste.

(i.e. the familiar adventure was 12 adventure calls and the training for the familiar to get trough easy needed twice as many time slots)

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