Jump to content
Black Chicken Studios Forums

Update 50 - Camicia Nera


Nel Celestine
 Share

Recommended Posts

I love her. She's so self-assured, and she's exactly what I thought she'd be. When I said I was voting for the Arditi belle, I wasn't wrong. I must admit I am not in the least surprised that she is more modeled after Mussolini's black shirts who were based on Arditi than the actual Arditi themselves. I am not disappointed though. Either way she came out dangerous. She is a femme fatale, with emphasis on the "Fatale", and she's earned a place in my fleet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welp, I guess it was a matter of time that an Italian Belle would be introduced, and I would miss it! -_-

 

Anyway, she's pretty straightforward, being what I thought she was meant to be.

A devout soldier and... well, you know what, all about fighting... it all pretty checks out, I'd say.

 

I'm not totally ok with what Mahan said about her career details.

The Battle of Cape Bon was a more serious debacle than one might understood. Apart from the torpedo-boat attacks (their four torpedo-tubes were arranged in two single tubes for each side, a fault that was later recognized and corrected), the Italian night-time tactics (which were employed "by the book" in this engagement),, especially for torpedo runs, proved flawed and ineffective, discouraging attacks with all available units, and firing all torpedoes at the same time (which was the best way to hit something, in the end). I am not aware of any "communication failures", just a doctrine that was inadequate in the end.

 

Also, "after the Venticinque Luglio, she surrendered to the Allies"? It's not wrong per se, but it's quite the time skip, since we're talking almost a month and a half, and an even bigger and more significant event!

 

Moreover, "sold" to the Soviet Navy? I don't think so; the Soviet Navy took her and gave nothing. And when one of the other ships assigned to it (the old destroyer Riboty) was found to be in poor state, they refused it and pretended a monetary compensation instead. <_<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much too intense for my tastes, but a good Belle over all. Her last line was interesting, she claims loyalty to il Duce yet seems to be interested in being in a fleet that wins and gains glory. It's very interesting to see that dual mentality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our Sweet Sulty Siren gets her shot in the sun.

 

I think you meant "in the lanterns."

 

*Ba Dum Tss*

 

Camicia Nera sure is one hardened Belle. What i do hope, though, is that she keeps her cigarette despite tobacco complaints due to cultural reasons and game fidelity. It will be a rough topic, but i hope BCs doesn't give up so easily on the matter.

 

And poor Mahan. The fog really did put a number on her during the whole interview. Though i think it's more a natural fear due to lack of developed grit, rather than pure xenophobia (fear of the unknown, to those wondering) or homichlophobia (fear of fog). And her inconfidence made a bigger contrast with Camicia's "badassery".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much too intense for my tastes, but a good Belle over all. Her last line was interesting, she claims loyalty to il Duce yet seems to be interested in being in a fleet that wins and gains glory. It's very interesting to see that dual mentality.

 

No dual mentality at all; the contradiction is only apparent, I'd say.

 

Fascism was built on the Italian success in World War I, and its concepts laid in making Italy great and forego the so-called "little Italy" (Italietta) that had been built by the Liberal statesmen. Its ideology was all about triumphing at home (against perceived internal threats, chiefly against Comunism) and abroad (by enlarging and strengthening Italy, chiefly in the Mediterranean and Balkan areas).

The consensus amongst historians is that the regime achieved its zenith after the invasion of Ethiopia, which brought its popularity to its peak (a fact recognized even by some anti-fascist leaving in exile).

And the regime then collapsed after the intervention in World War II resulted in debacle after debacle, so much that after Mussolini was overthrown, it was possible to dissolve the PNF and the fascist militia without any incident, clear sign that its popularity had all but evaporated, except perhaps in a small minority that nonetheless kept quiet at that moment.

 

It's not that surprising, therefore, that Camicia Nera values winning over anything else, and is willing to stick to the winning side. She shows more pragmatism that several leading Fascist ever had.

 

HistoryNerd;

 

Well, 'sold' against the debt of the war reparations. ;)

 

That's interesting about the tactics- I'm not sure the Team knew that. At least I was under the impression the Italians did not mean to attack individually! Thanks for letting us know that. :)

 

A sale is something that involves ceding a good or a service in exchange of something else, i.e. it implies mutual benefit.

There is nothing about war reparations that concerns mutual benefit, just a winning nation imposing its will on the losing one and profiting from it.

 

Anyway, no big deal; I'd just have preferred to read "ceded to the Soviet Navy for war reparations".

 

About the tactics, I must say it's not that difficult to know about.

This thing about Italian torpedo tactics is mentioned in the book of Vincent O'Hara "Struggle in the Middle Sea", which I don't think it's a very specialist book.

 

But I know it's easy for me to say that, since I integrate it with many other source, and I have the advantage of being a native Italian speaker, therefore easily reading Italian documents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's still surprising considering that the biggest pro fascist Belle, Nurnburg, doesn't have a self-glory seeking mentality. While Camicia Nera wants glory for herself. She won't work against Italy but the glory she seeks is purely for herself. It makes her very interesting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She's an interesting character for sure, kind of like an Italian Yukikaze. She's got a luck about her and will never sink, but anything she touches, befriends, or tries to protect dies.

 

Hey, let's not be that catastrophic. They didn't say that ALL the ship she's escorted or she sailed with were sunk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It's still not as bad a trend as the one of, say, Shigure...

 

I'd be way more tense and worried if I were protected by her, and I think it's apparent why.

 

Because you'd be up against the most absurdly overpowered naval force ever assembled?

 

 

Frankly, I'd feel a bit safer with Tameichi Hara at my back...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Because you'd be up against the most absurdly overpowered naval force ever assembled?

 

 

Frankly, I'd feel a bit safer with Tameichi Hara at my back...

 

 

Why, was the American force at the Battle of Vella Gulf "overpowered", i.e. with an overwhelming numerical or qualitative advantage? It's not like the only time she was the only one to escape was at Surigao...

 

 

Anyway, thank you, I'll stick with Giuseppe Cigala Fulgosi and Francesco Mimbelli. They did ok against decidedly superior odds, without having superior torpedo performance and superb training.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It's still not as bad a trend as the one of, say, Shigure...

 

I'd be way more tense and worried if I were protected by her, and I think it's apparent why.

 

 

 

Because you'd be up against the most absurdly overpowered naval force ever assembled?

 

 

Frankly, I'd feel a bit safer with Tameichi Hara at my back...

 

 

It reminds me escape HMS "Vimiera" and the abandonment of the destroyer ORP "Burza" the immediate sink HMS "Wessex" by one bomb Ju-87 Stukas at the mercy of 27 Stuka bombers! Although the main Unit responsible for the band destroyers was the...HMS "Vimiera."

 

Returning to Camicia Nera is a very interesting bell with history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Why, was the American force at the Battle of Vella Gulf "overpowered", i.e. with an overwhelming numerical or qualitative advantage? It's not like the only time she was the only one to escape was at Surigao...

 

 

Anyway, thank you, I'll stick with Giuseppe Cigala Fulgosi and Francesco Mimbelli. They did ok against decidedly superior odds, without having superior torpedo performance and superb training.

 

The battle of Vella Gulf was under very specific circumstances. Firstly, the Japanese had only 4 destroyers caught between a crossfire of 6 American destroyers. It was the 3rd time the Japanese had made that supply run and the Americans were ready for them. With the advantage of radar under the cover of night and mountainous islands, the Americans had full control of the battle. The Japanese had no way of knowing they were there until the torpedoes hit. Shirgure actually got hit by a torpedo that tore a meter wide hole in her rudder without detonating. She was incredibly lucky to survive at that time. The Americans had every qualitative advantage at that time, not to mention numerical and positional superiority.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The battle of Vella Gulf was under very specific circumstances. Firstly, the Japanese had only 4 destroyers caught between a crossfire of 6 American destroyers. It was the 3rd time the Japanese had made that supply run and the Americans were ready for them. With the advantage of radar under the cover of night and mountainous islands, the Americans had full control of the battle. The Japanese had no way of knowing they were there until the torpedoes hit. Shirgure actually got hit by a torpedo that tore a meter wide hole in her rudder without detonating. She was incredibly lucky to survive at that time. The Americans had every qualitative advantage at that time, not to mention numerical and positional superiority.

 

So? Should it be expected that every battle should be fought on optimal conditions, in a favourable tactical position and with the advantage of surprise? Moreover, weren't the Japanese watchmen famed for being even better than radar? Why did they fail there? If it was the third time they went through that area, they should have known the enemy would have tried to stop them, because I don't think the Japanese command was so dumb that it believed they had slipped in without being detected or noticed, the previous two times.

Maybe my knowledge of these battles is a bit low, but it doesn't seem to me that the American side had such an edge, both in numerical terms (six versus four, forgive me, but given the previous exploits of Japanese destroyers it doesn't seem exactly an overwhelming advantage) and in qualitative terms. I can admit the thing about positional advantage, though.

 

And to be fair, in this battle radar may have been an advantage, but subsequent actions would prove that its presence was no guarantee of victory (I'm of course talking of 1943-era radars, not about the more perfected radars that would come later).

Even the Regia Marina (whose nighttime combat doctrine and training was relatively poor, as we know) had one engagement in which this became apparent. In April 1943, two British destroyers with radar went to intercept a steamship and its advanced escort of two torpedo-boats; the torpedo-boats managed to visually spot the enemy four minutes before their radars picked them up. Therefore the steamship was able to double back and resume its voyage the next day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...