More points in Character Creation?

[Vegejor]

Just as it says. I don't mind having to choose for my character, but I'd like to be able to select at least one option from every list. I suggested this and while not agreeing, Legate of Minate was interested in seeing if more people were interested in this.

 

So I thought I'd make a poll to see how people feel about it. While no promises and garantuees have been made, I believe it might help the good folks of this game to decide what to do.

 

 

Please feel free to state your opinion on the subject with your arguments, but please try to keep it pleasant. (not that I need to worry with you guys, you are all great so far.)

[Legate of Mineta]

We will be watching.

[Kipper]

Hmm. I'm actually not sure. I certainly don't want *less* - I struggle enough every time prioritizing things I want. But I worry a bit about upping the number, because it might make things unbalanced. Maybe a small boost - something like two points - would be fine, but I'd not want to get into the range of "5 points for traits and ten to disperse among the other categories" - then you'd never have to make hard choices at the outset.

[Vegejor]

That is also not my intention Kipper, as I agree that would make the game unbalanced.

 

No what I mean is giving us enough points so we can at least select a skill from each group. So I won't have to give up my familiar for something else.

[emerssso]

I actually think that the way it works presently is sufficient. Every time I go to make a new character, there are one or two options I wish I had, but don't get to pick. The way I see it is, this means I have a greater variety of characters available, which is good. I think adding more points in would make things a little unbalanced, and perhaps a little unbelievable. I mean, how much can one kid do before he goes to school at thirteen? (It is thirteen, right?)

 

If you start adding more points, you'll end up with a kid who was born at midnight when a comet was falling and all the mirrors broke as he cried for the first time, who then proceeded to apprentice to a blacksmith, and defeat monsters. When he does go to school, he fights pirates, explores a lost city, and is shipwrecked, all on the way there. At that point, it almost seems like there should be a prequel game!

 

So yeah, I think it works the way it is now, resulting in unique students that, while special, aren't ridiculous Herculean children who clearly should be out saving the world rather than going to class.

[shin]

Well, generally what I do, is add no points to attributes directly, and use the extra points from that to choose more in the later lists.

 

Then take something like 'Descended of Traitors'.

 

You can up several attributes in the later lists, so it's certainly 'pointless' to use the points for these if you just want a +1 in them, unless using one of the later picks blocks out another choice you want.

 

I really don't know if there should be more or this is just right. It seems like the other students on average may get more to start with? Dunno.

[Clio]

What I would love is one point for each category. So instead of getting 10 points total to mix and match however you'd like, give five points for stat allocation, and then you get to choose one astrological sign, one childhood adventure, etc. Each point must be used for that particular grouping and couldn't be applied elsewhere.

 

The logic is that everyone has, for example, an astrological sign, everyone has had exploits, everyone has had some sort of education/work experience/trade training.

 

I realize that this might seem unbalanced, and may require some rejiggering a few skills, but from a role-playing perspective, it seems to make more sense to me.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[Vegejor]

Clio I like your suggestion. That would effectively prevent people from using misusing and effectively get's what I want to achieve.

 

Legate, would Clio's brilliant suggestion be an option?

[Legate of Mineta]

Vegejor;

 

It's certainly possible. We're still considering, though- sometimes, Players like to be able to focus in specific categories, and we think that's a good thing, too. Still, having one point in each category certainly makes for a more well-rounded Student.

[Vegejor]

Not to mention not having a family or birth sign would be plain weird.

[Synel]

You could always consider separating the points for background selections and stat increases since you can only allot 5 points to your stats anyway (although Kipper doesn't seem to like that idea). Maybe give 5 for stat points and 5 for backgrounds traits.

 

I don't really agree with the one point for every background. For one I chose descendant of nobility and descendant of traitors in the same which makes sense and second you're restricting the player to one selection for no reason other than possibly game balancing. Some people might prefer to take none of one category and thereby be forced to sacrifice a point or take something they don't want. Also making everyone adhere to a formula such as that would make every character less unique.

[nightguard]

Personally, I thin the current method is quite effective. If you *really* need one more build point, there are two options under the family background that can net you an extra build point, although with some obvious drawbacks. That said, not every student is going to have been born under a significant astrological sign, have come from a family of note, or have had any real education prior to their attendance in the Academagia.

 

If you want a character with a portentious birth, you can have that, but he may not have had the chance to go to school or apprentice to someone because people were making greater demands of him. Maybe your student was the black sheep of the family and got sent off to the school early, but had some important encounters with other students or a teacher during their voyage. That's why I like the way it's set up now; not so much because of what it does let you do, but because right from the start of the game you have to accept that there are choices to make, and you can't always get everything you want in just your first playthrough.

[shin]

I doubt I'd like to be locked into 1 point per category, especially since there's a lot of variety in each category..

[emerssso]

I think the idea of one point per category could work, but the categories would need some reworking. For instance, if I don't want my student to have a familiar, or I don't want him to have had some great portent at his 3:00 in the afternoon birth, I don't want to loose out. Further, I want to be able to make a favored child who is also the son of a noble wizarding family that likes sports. I don't see any inconsistency in that, and it allows the creation of a greater variety of interesting characters to play.

 

Something like the one point per category idea would work if the categories were more like the born at dawn/noon/midnight set, and clearly couldn't overlap. However, the choices we have now are really fun, and do allow overlap, so I can't really say I'm down with the greater customization and variety they allow.

[knightav]

I'm pretty happy with things as they are.

 

My one criticism is that it is pretty expensive (point-wise) to get into the familiar-related stuff. In general this goes back to the ever present question of why train your familiar when you could train yourself? Admittedly there are some good answers to that question, but they are a lot less compelling at the start of the year.

[nightguard]

Actually, there is a (somewhat hidden) point to the familiar training options to consider. Your character is 'informed' of any skill your familiar has access to. Given that there are options for skills you can 'train' your familiar in that you don't have many options you can train your character in, you can use this as a bit of a sneaky way to get access to some skills you might not normally start the year off with.

[equilibrium]

I think that having 5 picks for attributes and 10 for other picks would be far too much. As a general rule I boost a couple attributes and then work on focusing on picks that create the kind of character I'm looking to play. I have found that for a lot of my characters I have wanted to take just one more pick and wasnt able to. Even after picking descended from traitors or black sheep. I think that 12 picks would be a nice number but thats just me. I cant really justify it with a grand argument. Even with only 10 picks I've been mostly satisfied with my characters. As I've stated in another post, I dont want to play some uber mage, at least not until my last year. If we cant have more picks perhaps having a couple more flaws we could pick would be an option. I went through the whole set of options repeatedly hoping to find more than the two negative qualities available to us. Maybe a couple flaws that make it hard to learn specific main skills. While someone could easily argue that you could just pick a a skill you dont think you'll need, the fact is that so many skills come up in the daily events and adventures that having to advance 7 skill steps for a low level of an otherwise easily advanced skill could effectively close off certain quests. While this may sound like a negative, it just means the clumsy kid who has trouble advancing his athletics skills will probably never finish a quest line that requires him to possess a high level in athletics. At least not without a little help from his friends .

[Fhoenix]

nightguard, seems fishy to me.

 

Vegejor, I actually had a similiar suggestion. Only I suggested having more free backgrounds. E.g. astrology, heritage and familliar should be free, since all people have a place of birth, time of birth and most of them have animals as familiars. Comet in astrology and exotic famillliars could cost a point and choosing Pamela would add one.

Buy yes, having more points would help too. Choosing what family you had, what apprenticeship you had is fun. Choosing between having a family and having a discovery in the city is less fun.

 

Another way is to have your first background in every category free and additional ones costing points. That way everybody would have some family, but some could have a more complex one.

[Clio]

nightguard, seems fishy to me.

 

Vegejor, I actually had a similiar suggestion. Only I suggested having more free backgrounds. E.g. astrology, heritage and familliar should be free, since all people have a place of birth, time of birth and most of them have animals as familiars. Comet in astrology and exotic famillliars could cost a point and choosing Pamela would add one.

Buy yes, having more points would help too. Choosing what family you had, what apprenticeship you had is fun. Choosing between having a family and having a discovery in the city is less fun.

 

Another way is to have your first background in every category free and additional ones costing points. That way everybody would have some family, but some could have a more complex one.

 

Fhoenix, I think this is a great idea. It's a much more elegant elaboration on my original idea, and addresses a lot of folks' concerns.

 

With all this said, I don't think that the character creation is a huge problem and should be the designer's number one priority, but it is one of the more interesting parts of the game, and fun to think about its different applications.

[laclongquan]

Currently, my feelings about points in CC is alright. I do wish the bar on stat is higher (4 is better than 3), but the 10 points are sufficient to set up and play.

[nightguard]

@Fhoenix

 

Actually, you would be right about this. It seems that having your familiar trained in a skill doesn't inform you about that skill. Odd. How can you train him farther in a skill if you've never even heard of it?

[Legate of Mineta]

Fhoenix;

 

Thanks for bringing this up- any Skills your Familiar has should be known by you, too. Such is the nature of the Bond. We'll get this corrected.

[Schwarzbart]

I think the 10 Points are good for now but at the lower Limit for the number of Options given. So as Soon ther is a expansion to the options aviable there sould be also a increase in option Points.

But the Suggestion to Choose the Birthday and Familiar without spending Points sounds good as long its get balanced overall. (maybe reduce the points to 8 but give Negative Options also to both like Pamela that gives 1 Point)

[Vegejor]

next time remind me not to give the negative options if I just want a count.

 

just kidding

 

While I am sad I lost this gamble you guys have some good arguments and I will accept my fate then.

 

Veggie

[JolandaRossa]

I like the idea of being able to pick an option in every section, but I would suggest an alternative solution:

 

- Add "neutral" choices to every section -- these would be free to choose and give no bonuses, but they'd still be "flavour";

 

and/or

 

- Add more "negative" choices that give you penalties and extra points to use elsewhere.