Free Lab Virtues

[Wits]

Looked through the Lab stuff in the Covenants book tonight, and noticed that we should probably have Superior Tools and Superior Equipment, since our grogs are good enough. These are free lab virtues, so everyone's lab would have them, presumably, at least after they've had them for a while so our experts have had time to do their thang. These are on page 116 of Covenants. They give the following bonuses to labwork altogether:

 

1+ General Quality, +2 Safety, +1 Vis Extraction, +1 Items

 

General Quality = You get this bonus on all lab totals (not advancement totals, i.e. not xp gain!)

Safety = subtracts from botch dice, i.e. helps with experimentation and studying from vis

Items = adds to enchanting totals and investigating enchanted items

Vis Extraction = adds to what it says on the tin

[Schwarzbart]

I personal would just say we need to be purcased them with a onetime payment but after this the upkeep is payed via our Worker.

For Dirk the story is that he got the Superior Tools from his Parent trough his work as Aprentice so he dont need to use the one of her and that what was in the Heavy chest he brought with him.

(Typical German Crafter Guild habit that the Master give the Apprentice theyr own working tools so they dont use the one of the Master)

[Wits]

That's an interesting question, actually - On the one hand, it seems intuitive that it should cost something to get the ingredients for the stuff. On the other hand, the grog wages themselves have been paid for already, and I don't know what percentage of the cost of superior equipment and tools would come from the actual ingredients as opposed to the work.

 

The Covenants book says this: "If the equipment was made at the covenant, the craftsman should have a Craft Ability of 6 or more, but do not increase the Upkeep".

 

The reason why that's slightly ambiguous is because Upkeep in the context of the Covenants book means the base parameter from which all the costs are calculated, including the cost to PROCURE the virtue in the first place. So if you set the Upkeep to 0 from the get-go, you don't have to pay the first cost, either; or you could interpret that as referring to just the maintenance. Let's ask CJ about that on Saturday if he doesn't happen to read this.

[Adrian]

Another thing I've told myself to look into, labs... ah well, it can wait a season or two

 

 

Thanks for making us aware of the chance Wits, even if it proves to be different. A question, do we (the mages) pay for lab upkeep? from the expenditures for the covenant it looks like the covenant does it, but I'm sitting on a large pile of coin by now and wondering if I shouldn't/haven't been spending a large % at something. (usually I wouldn't complain, but it seems silly just to pile them up )

[Schwarzbart]

I would read it that the running upkeep is paid but for calculate the initial cost the full sum of the Upkeep is put into the calculation.

Btw when we already at the Lab do anyone know where I find how much extra a Lab with Size +1 cost compared to a Size +0?

 

Edit: @Adrian I would say if a Lab increase its upkeep without geting aproved from the other covenant Mages (expecial Anthonius) he have to pay the upkeep from his own pocket.

Btw the upkeep of +1 means 1 Myhtic Silver Pound upkeep per year if I remember right

[Adrian]

The size of +1 gives you a free boon of your choice I think, if I remember... As I said, I need to read it thoroughly at some point, a lot of this is just semi guessing from what little I remember reading.

[Schwarzbart]

Adrian I asked about the extra Upkeep a larger Lab cost as this is somewhere hiden in the other texts and not in the Lab section.

[Adrian]

ah, misread, sorry, no answer there.

[Nyaa]

Since we inherit the vacant lab, then we’ve likely to have inherit some sort of lab tools from the previous generation that might be outdated or just degraded depends on how long it became vacant, which the grog doesn’t need to maintain the tools in the empty lab. I think.

 

Besides, we’ve suppose to spend a season to personalize the lab, my lab tool like a tong might require to be longer because I am short or other means of holding it if I have paw instead of hand, inherited from a Criamon lab and there’s no way you can comprehend why the previous magi use a fork as a tong and it’s a +1 quality for him, or inherited from a necromancer that doesn’t care about decay or dirty moldy tool works like a +1 to him since every mage works differently.

 

So I would say that we need to purchase/order a new personalize custom made set that fit for your mage. Price wise, it should be above street price since it’s specializing for you to use it better and easier.

 

As for whether the grog upkeep covers it, I would say it is just maintenance but the rules seems to be ambiguous enough to go both way, so I suggest going for the less complex solution and say yes to grog both creating and maintaining the tools since our return of the covenant. We did hire them to do whatever we need.

 

However, if our covenant is not resourceful enough to provide the ingredient the grog needs, then we do need to pay to order whatever they need to specifically make our tools, which goes back to my personalize intepretation, since some flambleu mage would want fireproof material for their tool and such.

[Schwarzbart]

Nyaa setting up a complet new Lab cost 2 saisons and adjusting a Lab existing lab without refinement to your personal liking 1 saison.

As soon there is refinement it get complicated as it means that the Lab was adjusted to bether suite the work flow of its user after he used it for some time.

I think I read that Durenmar have even a Refined lab that can change from user to user but thats a special chase.

[Wits]

Schwarzbart: I don't see any mention of the connection of size and upkeep - maybe we can assume that there isn't one? It's slightly strange, but since size increases already incur safety penalties, it's balanced mechanically I think.

[Schwarzbart]

I just found part of it, its at Covenants 114 each +1 size add 20 Build Points to the covenant a normal Size 0 Lab without any Virtues & Flaws cost 50 Build Points.

Each Major Virtue cost 20 Build Pints, each Minor Virtue cost 10 Build Points

 

Now I have to find how this translate to actual upkeep or if this is only for the setup of the covenant. oO

 

Edit ok read it to the end .... Iiiiiii that means each Virtue cost 1 (minor) or 2 (major) Saisons to add them!

[Wits]

Schwarzbart: Yes, that's right, but it doesn't concern the Superior tools and equipment virtues because they are Free.

[Schwarzbart]

Yes but it affects how Dirks lab status is at the winter.

Edit: need to spend 2 saisons to get the Lab to its final set up but might wait for 1217 for this as then I could do the refinement and get past a not very fitting flaw ^^