Characters with whom it is possible to get 11+ relations - Similar in Some Way?

[Rhialto 20]

I was thinking about how some characters in Y1, if their adventures be completed, gain increases in their relationship maximums: sometimes +1, sometimes +2, and 1 (Shearry Warrington) +3. Now, Shearry, I know, is defined by his helpfulness, so his +3 relationship maximum is a plausible integration of game mechanics and story. But is there any similarity between characters with +2 bonuses? Or will underlying similarities only become apparent in Y2 (or perhaps in later games, when dating is allowed)?

I ask this question because there is such difference between Prudence Cossins and Uliva Valaresso, yet both of them get +2 bonuses to their relationship maximums when their adventures are completed. Prudence is ill-suited for her college and her courses, has major social confidence issues (better suited for Godina, where her mastery of Incantation and physical aggression could gain her academic glory), yet is (as an AI) interested in romance (according to the wiki). Uliva, on the other hand, is perfectly suited to Morvidus's eccentric nature-lover and friend to animals stream of study, and as an AI is (per the wiki) almost purely consumed with academics and studying serpents (which for a Morvidus student much overlap).

Finally, some remarks about the characters whose adventures give only +1 or no relationship maximum increase. Beatrix von Wetgen I understand for having no such increase - she is friendly, but her relationships with others in the game seem shaped by doing things such as hiking and natural philosophical (or scientific) inquiry rather than emotional support/conversation that forms the basis for deeper relationships (unlike the adventures with, among others, Ana Flavia Bessa and Prudence, in which the PC is helping them deal with emotional as well as physical problems). Sima Venesico gets only a +1 bonus for completing her adventure, which I suppose is a nice way to reflect her AI programming of "Wuv. Twue wuv. Within reason."

Edited August 31, 2018 by Rhialto
Clarified the title

[Legate of Mineta 0]

I am forbidden to comment on this officially.

[Rhialto 20]

@Legate of Mineta: That is quite alright. The release of Y2 would be a very great sop to my curiosity in this regard. May it come! But comments by, for example, @Metis and @freespace2dotcom would be very interesting to me.

[Metis 1,117]

The only thing I have to say on this subject is that there's two ways to subvert this entire idea, and by that I mean put it's leg on an anvil and have Thor go to town with Mjolnir. One, there's a constellation effect (forget which one off-hand) you can get with the Astrology Action which gives +1 random relationship Max. This could, in theory, be repeated so long as one's Insight/Astrology is good enough to get the effect and the constellation remains active. No, there's no way to manipulate which constellations are active at what points in time other than starting a new game - that's when that stuff is (randomly) determined - and you don't get taught any tricks to figure out/keep track of what constellations are/will become active until at least Y2. But if you luck out on that, ho boy, Cyrus would be proud. And green with envy.

The second way is to cast a Spell with the Emotion Pheme added to it, because that can randomly add Affection/Love to your chosen target. You need an opposite-gender relationship at 11+/13+ to get Affection/Love normally, but unlike most emotions you don't need to have what it takes to get it to keep it - Affection only breaks if you get Despair, Love only breaks if you lose Affection. So if you get either from another source it sticks around. Unfortunately I think this particular trick is slated to be fixed/bulldozed in Y2 (whatever the more accurate term is) because the Y2 AI basically lost it's head trying to process the situation, so...alas.

[Rhialto 20]

@Metis: My OP dealt only with the relationship gains from completing characters' adventures.

[Rhialto 20]

Having thoughten more about the matter, I think that there may be commonalities between Prudence and Uliva - and that the linking element in Zoe Melis, who also gets a +2 relationship if players complete her adventure in some way. Zoe, like Uliva, is very academically oriented, and like Prudence, socially isolated and has low self-confidence. Since being so obsessed with snakes is not a good way to be popular on Earth, let alone on Cyve (where all reptiles are linked with evil dragons), I think that a case may be made that all three characters' adventures are associated with +2 relationship maximum increases as a reflection of their social isolation and accompanying willingness to be more friendly with PCs who help them - those starved of good relationships can be quite eager to preserve the ones that they have, even unto going uncommonly deep in the relationships.

Does any one know about any other character whose main adventure grants a +2 bonus to relationship maximum upon completion? Because it would be interesting to compare any such characters to Uliva, Zoe, and Prudence.

[Metis 1,117]

I vaguely recall a list being posted a while back somewhere of another...or maybe that was birthdays? Either way I'll go check...

So here's what I pulled from the mod tools. Outdated of course, so it's not complete/up to date in terms of info/bugs, but should be a decent frame of reference:

Spoiler

Student name|Relationship Max gained from doing said student's adventure. Multiple options means that different exits result in different amounts.

Aaran Ledale                      |??
Alan Driscoll                     |+0
Amada Kiffer                      |+0
Ana Flavia Bessa                  |+1
Antonio de Reyez e Irizarry-Vargas|??
Asmita Tidar                      |+0
Ausdauer Mollers                  |+0
Aveline Cincebeaux                |+0
Avgust Kostrodyrets               |+0
Aymeri Couer                      |+0
Basia Rydz                        |+1
Beatrix von Wetgen                |+0
Cante Caviti                      |+1
Carmine Sturzo                    |+0
Caspar Pfeuffer                   |+0
Catherine Chard                   |+1
Cinzia Ammacapani                 |+2
Cirillo Laziosi                   |+0
Cordelia Troublepot               |+0
Corradin d'Alfi                   |+0
Cosetta Re                        |+0
Courtenay de Surval               |+0
Cyrus Dawes                       |+0
Durand de Thiomines               |+0
Eduard Solov'ev                   |+0
Eliana Carosi                     |+0
Els Rottmundyn                    |+0
Emilia Picotti                    |+0
Emilia Strolin                    |+0
Everwine von Zoedorf              |+2
Flore Yveuillet                   |+1/+2
Girars de Periarde                |+0
Grainne Inneith                   |+0
Gwendy Zuyder                     |+0
Hector Per Vittoria               |+0
Herbert Downes                    |+0
Honors Plafox                     |+0
Irene Oxina                       |+0
Isabeau Glorieux                  |+0
Iustus Venture                    |+0
Jere Niemela                      |+0
Joana Lio y Rossollo              |+0
Katja Quinnecht                   |+1
Kurt Henning                      |+0/+1 (bug?)
Lambert Cobo                      |+0
Leopold Rassent                   |+1/+2
Llarina de Avuel                  |+0
Louise Kandinsky                  |??
Luti Jaconelli                    |+0
Magalda Quaranta                  |+0
Magsa Nembo                       |+0
Mairgrete Strakley                |+0
Malacresta Vercesi                |+0
Malthezar Mhadi                   |+0
Marc Sury                         |+0
Milena di Montors                 |+0
Miya Hikari                       |??
Montague Ruffo                    |+0
Neso Ulleri                       |+1/+2
Neta Xemutre                      |+0
Noemia Falcon y Paredes           |+2
Olivia Solari                     |+2
Oriabel Sidot                     |+1/+2
Philip Hauck                      |+0/+1/+3
Philippe Marchant                 |+0
Piccolet Gleyre                   |+0
Prudence Cossins                  |+1
Raoul Leconte                     |+2
Reitz von Lutersee                |+0
Rikildis von Kiep                 |+2
Rixenda la Serena                 |+0
Rui da Casga                      |+1/+2
Sheary Warrington                 |+2/+3
Sigalis du Sonmeil                |+0
Silke Niederstatter               |+2
Sima Venesico                     |+1
Tabin Furenzti                    |+0
Tacito Viadana                    |+0
Tulia Faspalla                    |+0
Uliva Valaresso                   |+2
Vettor Conta                      |+0/+2 (bugged: should be just +2)
Vincent Eins                      |+0
Vincent Warrender                 |+2
Vrenelle Bonvin                   |+0
Vuillaume Eparvier                |+0
Zoe Melis                         |+0/+2
Zorzi Galea                       |+0

tl;dr is that Philip Hauck can also get +3 relationship max from his adventure, and Pru apparently is limited to +1? Like I said this is based on DLC 15, so things could easily have changed since then (such as adding four students that I have no knowledge of, for instance ), and I only checked the very final stage of their adventure, not any of the ones before, so there's room for errors here.

[Rhialto 20]

@Metis: The table that you have given, while useful, is not reliable. The wiki says (rightly or wrongly, I know not) that there is a way to gain only a +1 relationship maximum with Zoe. More to the point, I know from experience that at least one way of completing Prudence's adventure give a +2 relationship maximum. That having been said, I will have to try Philip Hauck's adventure some time to see about it. If I remember correctly, at least 1 Miya Hikari adventure exit has a +1 relationship maximum.

 

[Rhialto 20]

@Mercy: Hello, and welcome to this forum. I am aware that there are random ways to gain increased relationship maximums (etiquette 8 is the one that I know about best).

As for Prudence's self-confidence, I think that her adventure reveals that she has some problems in that regard. She wants to make friends but cannot fit into other cliques. Admittedly, she has the confidence to try to form her own clique, but even here her efforts may (depending on the route chosen) reveal that she has self-confidence issues - by this, I mean there is one way in which she can be convinced to display her powers of incantation magic, but only amidst much worry about screwing up matched by unwillingness to reveal her lack of self-confidence. And she must be flattered before she displays this talent. Finally, her adventure involves her learning to like being addressed by her name. These are not traits that I associate with self-confidence. I interpret her aggression as a way to conceal (from herself as well as others) her profound lack of self-confidence.

As far as the relationship Maximum from completing Prudence's adventure, maybe the game changed with the Summer's Blush mod in that regard, because I remember multiple games with the First Touch of Summer mod in which completing her adventure with the Dedication exit granted a +2 to relationship maximums. @Legate of Mineta, was there any change in this regard?

[Legate of Mineta 0]

Rhi;

Not that I am aware of, but it might have happened- I don't recall the changelog.

[Rhialto 20]

@Legate of Mineta: If there was such a change (and I would have to check Prudence's adventure in the latest patched version), would it affect imports from Y1 using the +2 relationship maximum increases?

[Metis 1,117]

That table is straight from the DLC 15 database, so it's either accurate or it got changed in DLC 16 or 17, as I mentioned. Though I didn't check results from failing rolls, so there is also that angle to consider. Incidentally, the Social Skills failure for Emilia P is listed as +2 in the database, and it's also listed as actually not finishing the adventure properly, allowing for infinite farming of +2 Relationship Max so long as you can keep failing the roll. That would be another thing that might have gotten changed/fixed between now and however many years ago, though.

EDIT: I figured it out! Pru's Dedication exit is bugged! The relationship (regular, not max) increase is incorrectly set to increase relationship Max instead! You can check it ingame by comparing it to the Passion exit - it should be +1 relationship and +1 relationship Max, whereas Dedication is +1 relationship Max (accidentally) and +1 relationship Max (intentional).

Edited August 31, 2018 by Metis

[Rhialto 20]

8 hours ago, Mercy said:

 

"Several of the boys Prudence beat up were also the boys she liked. She can't explain why she does it"
"Prudence's father died when she was young. She didn't know him that well, so it isn't especially traumatic for her, but she does think that the lack of a father figure for her may have made her more aggressive than she would be otherwise. Her mother acts more like a friend than a parent, so she doesn't really respect authority in general."

What are you quoting? @Legate of Mineta has been very cagey when answering my questions about Prudence. Not that I am surprised by what you quote - it fits with my understanding of Prudence as a very confused, fundamentally good person who is (due to low self-confidence) prone to resorting to default toughness/aggression (the aggression often in defence of what she thinks is a good cause).

I do not understand where you get the idea that grammar and arithmetic are basic for everyone - many characters in Academagia do not take these courses. @Legate of Mineta has said that there is an in character reason why Prudence takes the courses that she does - I think that the grammar and arithmetic may be part of either some effort to discipline herself or counter possible stereotypes against Oncestrians (keep in mind that Oncestrians are regarded in Mineta as living at the fringes of civilization - plus there is the controversy over Oncestria's monarchy).

I love your explanation of why Prudence takes rhetoric - she realizes that there are more ways to solve quarrels than fighting, and wants to learn about them.

Thank you very much for the discussion of Els - I will have to play her adventure in my next game. There are so many characters in the game, some of whom are more interesting than others.

[Metis 1,117]

The .amo is the version 1.0 modbase, specifically. Since I don't think they're possible to unlock ingame (and therefore check what they say in the current DLC version) here's the lores as they were in DLC 15:

Spoiler

I:

The popular story about Prudence having eaten a bat has been exaggerated slightly. She was on one of her regular trips to her great aunt's shack (she's a bit of a hermit) when it happened. Sure, she ate some bat, but it was cooked and she hadn't thought to ask what the meat was before gobbling it down. The great aunt scrounged up whatever meat she could find, and happened to be a fan of bat meat herself.

Anyway, Prudence didn't find out until later what it was she had eaten, but she thought it was an interesting story and told one of her friends. The friend promptly told everyone else, constantly adding gross details with each retelling. This didn't exactly help Prudence's slightly anti-social nature.

II:

Prudence is able to play the simple melody "Hot Cross Buns" on over 30 different instruments, a list she is fond of recounting to her closer friends. She lacks the dedication to really stick to one instrument well enough to be very good, but music teachers tend to compliment her on how well she picks up new ones. She says that the only thing holding her up from increasing her list's size is the lack of new instruments to play.

III:

Prudence is very fond of animals. Though people may make fun of her, she can talk to most animals all day long and never really miss the responses she would get back from humans. She even says that wolves will sit and listen to her stories where people will not. This affinity for wolves has only hurt her twice out of nearly a hundred times, but one time was right after she had eaten that bat, and she guessed that the smell on her breath must have made the wolf attack her.

IV:

Prudence hates her name so much that she started to take actions to get rid of it. She wanted a new name, but she doesn't have enough friends to really get a new name and have other people use it. She has even thought about transferring to a normal school, just so she could get a fresh start and use a new name. Now, she feels a bit more secure about it, though.

V:

Prudence keeps it a surprisingly closely guarded secret that she enjoys fishing. She has caught well over fifty fish in her life, and even holds a few size records at individual ponds. She doesn't tell anyone, though, afraid of being considered even more of a tomboy than she already is.

VI:

Prudence has a small collection of nesting dolls, or matroshkas. She practices stacking them perfectly with magic. Her collection is kept carefully hidden under a floorboard in her dorm, but she has shown it to one or two close friends in the past.

VII:

Prudence's father died when she was young. She didn't know him that well, so it isn't especially traumatic for her, but she does think that the lack of a father figure for her may have made her more aggressive than she would be otherwise. Her mother acts more like a friend than a parent, so she doesn't really respect authority in general.

VIII:

Prudence has yet to kiss a boy. She finds this rather irritating, as she also believes that she must be the last in the class to have never done so (which isn't at all true). Boys are so frightened of her, and her tendencies to fight with them, that she isn't particularly successful at becoming close to them in general.

IX:

Several of the boys Prudence beat up were also the boys she liked. She can't explain why she does it, but one good guess is that the boys she likes are also the ones she talks to, and then the people she talks to are more likely to annoy her enough that she'll hit them. At least that's her best guess.

X:

Prudence can't tell the difference between hunger and thirst, and this makes her feel rather insecure about her eating habits. Though this is actually true for plenty of people, Prudence often decides to drink water when she isn't sure, because she's afraid of gaining weight when she isn't even hungry. This in turn increases the number of bathroom breaks she takes when out somewhere, which some people have made fun of her for.

I should add that very few, if any, other students have a series of lores like this that's specifically about them, so it's possible this is the remnant of some kind of idea (being able to Research your classmates?) that got scrapped pretty early on. If so expect a few continuity errors here and there.