Schwarzbart Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I decided to do a new Mini Mod, this time to fix some of the worst class we have. With this mod all class teach at last 64 increases and with at last 54 useful for characters with high attributes. Geometry +17 total Architecture +3 Athonos 3 Gelamenus 5 Nivelos 5 Astronomy +3 Veranix 3 Veranix 16 Anedius 4 Cartography +1 Anedius 24 Drafting +2 Aurit 16,26 Properties of Arithmetic +4 Veranix 8 Pramidi 8 Hionosi 16 Aruit 8 Theory of Arithmetic +4 Pramidi 5, 26 Gelamenus 23 Anedius 18 Zoology +11 total Amphibians +3 Veranix 8 Anedius 2 Anedius 17 Animal Husbandry +3 Athonos 23 Aurit 15 Veranix 23 Fish +1 Anedius 4 Riding +1 Athonos 25 Worms +3 Hionosi 2 Aruit 8 Veranix 4 Music +7 total Diction +2 Athonos 4 Nivelos 23 Listen +1 Anedius 24 Mimicry +1 Veranix 26 Music Theory +3 Pramidi 22 Hionosi 15 Anedius 2 Rhetoric +7 total Diction +1 Athonos 4 Etiquette +2 Anedius 2 Hionosi 24 Oratory +2 Aruit 25 Nivelos 4 Persuation +1 Anedius 5 Theology +1 Nivelos 8 Dialectic +6 total Civil Law +1 Anedius 15 Elumian +1 Veranix 12 First Principles +4 Anedius 17 Aurit 11,23 Gelamenus 16 Enchant +7 total Concentration +1 Athonos 10 Phemes +2 Nivelos 24 Aruit 8 Materials Knowledge +3 Hionosi 16 Veranix 15,22 Metallurgy +1 Anedius 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 That would bump up the Astronomy/Dialectic/Enchant/Geometry/Music/Zoology Avila student to 387 total skills steps over 388 Attend Classes actions, so just barely below an average of 1 skill step per action. From 0.943 to 0.997 SS per action on average. It's a start, but not enough to compete with even the basic Train action. Yes, even with the buff classes could be less efficient (if by a very small margain) than just random personal training. Especially if you have access (and visitation rights or save game cheese) to an area that would make that training more efficient, like The Champion's Room. I'm crunching the numbers to see how one would clear out and rebuild the class rosters from scratch so they'll hand out an average of +2 SS per Attend Class action, which at least for the player I believe is a much-needed buff. FYI, that starts with having every class hand out 130 SS total, so Geometry and Zoology get +74 and +72 SS to their name from me. Here's to hoping the student body will like geometric fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 This mod was never meant to fix the basic problem that class is not efficient but instead the focus was to make some class that was on the low end of what is thought trough class time more interesting. To make a mod that take care of the problem that even Train is better then visiting class a mod would need to increases all class except arithmetic by at last 3 SS. Such a mod would be to much change to the base game for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Yeah, it'd definitely throw the current balance of the game off it's hinges, but for me that's preferable to having classes that are so utterly useless that School Survival 1 makes everything obsolete. I won't actually code, let alone test the mod because, you know, that'd be allot of time spend on doing something incredibly monotonous and I'm not the kinda guy that can sit through that, but I think I can crunch some numbers. EDIT: The numbers show that my grand dream of efficient classes involve considerably more pipes than I had thought previously. For reference, here's what I calculated that Arithmetic would teach to reach 1.5 SS/Attend Class Action: -Administration ×06-Accounting ×07-Applications of Arithmetic ×10-Conversation ×02-Identities of Arithmetic ×10-Listen ×05-Memorization ×05-Negotiate ×06-Properties of Arithmetic ×15-Puzzles ×07-Reason ×05-Temperance ×03-Theory of Arithmetic ×15 For that list I went with "maxing out a skill takes 10×training modifier steps", just to keep things simple. It's pretty well in line with how many Arithmetic SS the class teaches currently, so figured it's accurate enough, at least. Of course this is just to reach 1.5 SS/ACA. If you want 2 SS/ACA, you're looking at another 43 SS on top of that already long list. Classes would pretty much have to teach 3 parent skills all the way to max for that to happen, but there only are 55 (including Gates/Mastery) so 6 classes would max out a good third of them. I'll continue crunching number to try and reach 1.5 ACA, because yeah. 2 is not happening without cranking up some training modifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 The publishing of the mod is currently at 26%. So if you want you maybe can test the effects of this small changes with your next game Rhetoric was added despite its better then Dialectic because it teach 2 skills as core that are commonly increased by Events and Adventures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Here's my 1.5SS/ACA standard Zoology class roster: -Amphibians ×10-Anatomy ×02-Animal Husbandry ×08-Birds ×10-Biology ×02-Danger Sense ×08-Fish ×10-Insects ×10-Knots ×03-Mammals ×10-Mimicry ×04-Move Silently ×05-Wilderness Survival ×05-Worms ×10 Things learned: Danger Sense has a training modifier of 2.5. I previously did not know it even could exceed 2, much less that it did. Also learned was that it is much easier to fill almost 100 skill steps when the class skills eat up 60 of them. Sadly there's only so many class skills that will eat up so many, but I'll make do. BTW, do these forums have a spoiler tag? I imagine those giant quote blocks are going to get annoying to scroll past eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 My Mod can now be downloaded together with my other mods in this thread: http://academagia.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=2332&st=0&p=19152 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Here's my first list of class SS increases in order to achieve a flat ~1.5 SS/ACA. Cranking that up to 2 is going to require classes handing out Research levels, which I'm pretty sure the engine cannot do, or massive levels of redundancy, which kinda defeats the entire point of handing out more to begin with. By the way, I would like spoiler tags if the forum has any: Arithmetic - 97-Administration ×06-Accounting ×07-Applications of Arithmetic ×10-Conversation ×02-Identities of Arithmetic ×10-Listen ×02-Memorization ×06-Negotiate ×06-Properties of Arithmetic ×15-Puzzles ×05-Reason ×05-Study Habits ×02-Temperance ×03-Test-Taking ×02-Theory of Arithmetic ×15Astrology - 97-Architecture ×01-Awareness ×05-Cartography ×03-Comets ×10-Composure ×03-Etiquette ×08-Moons ×10-Navigation ×02-Observation ×05-Planets ×10-Stars ×10-The Everard Equation ×17-Theory of Astrology ×13Athletics - 97-Archery ×10-Brute Strength ×06-Competition ×10-Coordination ×05-Endurance ×04-Escape Artist ×04-Flawless Timing ×08-Leadership ×02-Playfulness ×05-Rallying ×03-Rimbal Plays ×03-Rimbal Positions ×04-Rimbal Tactics ×03-Running ×10-Swimming ×10-Wrestling ×10Botany - 97-Agriculture ×10-Chemistry ×03-Courtly Fashion ×02-Flowers ×10-Greengrocery ×06-Observation ×14-Perfumes ×04-Poisons ×02-Puzzles ×06-Recipes ×06-Roots ×10-Scent Detection ×05-Seeds ×10-Study Habits ×04-Wilderness Survival ×05Calligraphy - 97-Art Appreciation ×04-Bookbinding ×10-Composure ×06-Forgery ×15-Forms ×10-Illustration ×10-Ink Compounds ×13-Orthography ×15-Planning ×04-Painting ×02-Patience ×04-Wit ×04Dialectic - 97-Anthropology ×01-Archaeology ×01-Bassan ×01-Civil Law ×01-Conversation ×04-Court Fashion ×01-Criminal Law ×01-Debate ×06-Elumian ×01-Famous Dilemmas ×10-First Principles ×17-Logic ×14-Merilien ×01-Oncestrian ×01-Persuasion ×06-Reason ×04-Sleuthing ×10-Storytelling ×08-Temperance ×04-Vilocian ×01-Wit ×02-Worldliness ×02Enchant - 97-Alchemical Tools ×08-Analyze ×08-Armorer ×03-Chemistry ×10-Jeweler ×08-Magical Appraisal ×10-Materials Knowledge ×10-Metallurgy ×05-Palettes ×18-Theory of Enchantment ×14-Weaponsmith ×03Geometry - 97-Architecture ×06-Astronomy ×10-Cartography ×08-Clockwork ×08-Dispassion ×03-Drafting ×10-Duelling Circles ×04-Famous Geometry Problems ×11-Geometric Laws ×13-Memorization ×06-Patience ×04-Study Habits ×04-Trigonometry ×10Glamour - 97-Creativity ×04-Cosmetics ×04-Court Hairstyles ×06-Courtly Fashion ×05-Etiquette ×06-Glamour Methods ×10-Glamour Phemes ×10-Glamour Spells ×10-Intrigue ×04-Manipulation ×06-Perfumes ×08-Planning ×03-Sewing ×04-Theory of Glamour ×13-Wit ×04Grammar - 97-Bassan ×04-Bluff ×03-Elumian ×06-Famous Poetry ×10-Famous Prose ×10-Flirting ×04-Innuendo ×02-Merilien ×04-Oncestrian ×04-Oratory ×05-Persuasion ×06-Semantics ×10-Speaking Quietly of Riddles ×08-Storytelling ×07-Syntax ×10-Vilocian ×04History - 97-Legacy of Many Towers ×04-Honor of Mallen Field ×04-Memorization ×03-Pride of a Rebel Queen ×04-Seeking Friends in Hidden Places ×04-Speaking Quietly of Riddles ×04-Striving Against the Foe ×04-The Calamities ×10-The Captivity of Man ×10-The Early Empire ×10-The Exile ×10-The History of Magic ×10-The Middle Empire ×10-The Second Captivity ×10Incantation - 97-Concentration ×02-Coordination ×05-Flawless Timing ×02-Incantation Methods ×12-Incantation Phemes ×11-Incantation Spells ×15-Innuendo ×02-Listen ×02-Mimicry ×04-Patience ×02-Phemes ×08-Puzzles ×09-Temperance ×03-Test Taking ×02-Theory of Incantation ×13-Willpower ×05Music - 97-Dance ×04-Famous Songs ×10-Harpsichord ×15-Listen ×06-Lute ×10-Lyre ×12-Music Theory ×06-Notation ×10-Violin ×14-Voice ×10Negation - 97-Character Study ×04-Concentration ×10-Diction ×04-Flattery ×02-Famous Battles ×02-Flawless Timing ×04-Interrogation ×04-Manipulation ×04-Negation Methods ×10-Negation Phemes ×12-Negation Spells ×14-Observation ×02-Perception ×05-Phemes ×08-Theory of Negation ×12Revision - 97-Artisan ×06-Concentration ×08-Danger Sense ×10-Perception ×08-Phemes ×05-Playfulness ×06-Practical Jokes ×04-Revision Methods ×10-Revision Phemes ×10-Revision Spells ×17-Theory of Revision ×13Rhetoric - 97-Acting ×04-Bluff ×04-Character ×10-Character Study ×05-Command ×03-Composure ×05-Confidence ×10-Deceit ×04-Debate ×04-Dedication ×03-Diction ×03-Diplomacy ×03-Dispassion ×04-Famous Speeches ×10-Innuendo ×06-Lie ×02-Oratory ×05-Passion ×10-Test-Taking ×02Zoology - 97-Amphibians ×10-Anatomy ×02-Animal Husbandry ×06-Birds ×10-Biology ×02-Danger Sense ×08-Fish ×10-Insects ×10-Knots ×03-Mammals ×10-Mimicry ×04-Move Silently ×05-Test-Taking ×02-Wilderness Survival ×05-Worms ×10 Assuming I didn't miscount again, that should all add up. As before these numbers assume that it takes 10 times a skill's Training Modifier to master that skill, and that things like "random events" or "Cleanse and Remake" do not exist. This does introduce some redundancy, but that's intentional. Classes aren't perfect, and there should remain a tempting reason to skip (outside the fact that 1.5 SS/ACA is still kinda meh). This does beg a question though - it is better to take classes in skills that the PC doesn't plan to train/use, thus slowly mastering a whole bunch of skills, or to take classes in skills that will be used so that adventures can be started and finished early, but with the result that classes dim in usefulness more quickly and the lure to skip becomes ever greater, with all the fun/Fun that brings? Also, I won't be modding classes to give out those skills steps myself. Based on how much I had to drag myself to just make the list...yeah, actually modding it in isn't going to happen. I kinda like what sanity I have left. The list is right here if anyone else wants to take a crack at it, though. Fun Fact: Zoology, I've noted many times before, does not teach Fish or Worms. Botany teaches 1 SS worth of Worms, and Athletics teaches 1 SS worth of Fish. I think it can safely be said that the Zoology teacher is lazy, which isn't really reflected by his random events IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikka Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Good idea for a mod, Schwarzbart. I highly approve of it, and will definitely be using it. Query: have you thought about maybe adding some research skills to all classes? No one touches research skills in game, but it would make sense for teachers to teach you a bit about it- and if they did, it would make more sense for your character to start researching it as well. I've thought about making a mod that adds research skills (never teaching beyond research level 5- if you want the bonus, you have to do actual work for it, but still getting you started) to all classes, but it would definite conflict with your mod, and I wouldn't want to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Because I suspect year 2 will be more centred around Research I prefer to not add some new via mod to year 1 also games with such a mod will be incompatible with year 2 unless the mod is also remade for year 2. As you might realised the mods I made where something that if you lose the effect in year 2 its not that painful, but if you lose everything from 10 timeslots then it hurts the character. For the mod I made I think right now to maybe add 2 more to all the Class I have now (except Rhetoric) and 4 to Dialectic, poor Professor Sido is right now the worst teacher when using my mod. @Metis, sorry I wont use your numbers because they change the game to much but if you want to do your own mod you always can Edit: Beside Metis you can only use SS that where introduced already in 1.0 so no The Everard Equation, Legacy of Many Towers ect. at last unless you manage to publish a mod using the last modbase what I can't do because the game is crash to desktop using such a mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I actually made and published a mod with the DLC 15/CP 3 stuff before, just some minor testing things, so it can work, at least. Can I assume when you tried you didn't activate both the mod and CP3/DLC15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I made a AMO from Modbase 4 then used this as base for the mod I published. In the game then selecting just the mod and the CP3 to start a new game ended in a CTD and this for 4 different try to do a mod with this AMO. Given that it takes a few hours to publish a mod I stopped then to experiment with the Modbase 4 AMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 How and where did you get Modbase 4 when, from what I can tell, Modbase 3 is the most recent? Eh, details. Anyway, what I did was: 1. Create a new mod and give it a name. 2. Use Modbase 3.amm as the base for the mod 3. Mod stuff 4. Publish the mod using Academagia 1.0.0.amo as base End result is that the mod contains everything that the DLC and CP added as well, since those thing are technically not part of the .amo and publishing picks it all up. Selecting both the mod and the actual DLC/CP pack is going to result in the game loading everything twice (and likely a CTD), but selecting just the mod is going to result in the game loading the DLC/CP and the modded stuff. I have tested that with my test mod, and it worked. Downside is that publishing took like 6 to 9 hours, but apparently that's the standard. And how that is going to work for official content, should the team decide to buff classes following my list, or how you're going to put the mod up for download when it also contains everything you didn't mod are other questions, but for personal use it works. I seriously hope the Y2 modding tools fix this "it takes hours and hours to publish" issue, honestly, because it is a real thorn in the modder's eyes (along with the Main Text tab issue which I think has already been confirmed will be fixed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Here is the problem in using Modbase 3 (what is actual the 4. published one because there was a modbase 3 released bevore) as base for your mod but only use the 1.0.0.amo when you Publish the Mod: You will add everything that was changed between 1.0 and DLC 16 also into the mod and so it will overwrite any change the team will do on this content at a later point. So not only your mod get big but you also generate some compatibility problems. You can make your own amo from the Modbase using Transform Mod to Official Content but as mentioned using this I ended with a ctd when using a mod that was published using this new amo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metis Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Never said it was a good solution, just said that it worked within a fairly limited range of circumstances. From a coding standpoint I can see more than a few points where the CTD issue can come from, but I'm not educated enough a programmer to find out what's the cause even with a crash log. Something to question the Legate about, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Publish now a new version where I changed the class to teach at last 62 increases with at last 52 that are useful for characters with high Attributes. The changes to the last version are in italic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Ok I will add even 2-4 more to this class training because I should then get all class combinations to teach in average over 1 skill per class timeslot (except in the 2 month of exam). The plan is to add the following to what is in post 1 Dialectic 54 +1 Civil Law +1 Elumian Enchant 56 +1 Concentration +2 Phemes +1 Metallurgy Geometry 56 +1 Cartography +1 Architecture +2 Drafting Music 54 +1 Listen +1 Mimicry Rhetoric 57 +1 Persuasion +1 Etiquette Zoology 54 +1 Riding +1 Fish So the mod I published today wont made available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwarzbart Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 The new version I current publish with the Mod tools now should give at last a average of 1 increase per class time slot except for the 2 month of the exams, no matter what class combination you use. This still means that you will get days where you learn nothing at a class slot but also days where you get more then 1 SS trained. Keep also in mind that teaching from other sources then class might reduce the number of increases you get from class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.