DrYuriMom

Effects of Belles on developing history

65 posts in this topic

39 minutes ago, Wellington99 said:

I've been mulling it over and perhaps Mussolini would come to an agreement with Britain. I mean he wants the Mediterranean as his private lake but with the Morganas running loose, the Brits have the only ways into the Med. He and Italy should know that if the Brits don't hold Gibraltar and the Suez, Italy is done for. It'd be beneficial to agree to something

Mussolini and Italy weren't too enthusiastic to go to war to begin with. A proper external threat will give them a good excuse to stay neutral from start to finish. Mussolini can polish his ego fighting Morganas.

3 minutes ago, DrYuriMom said:

Korky, as much as I will agree that Churchill has a chequered past (pun intended), I still laud him as the single most important person of the 20th century. Without him, Britain would have sued for peace with the collapse of France and Hitler could have taken the USSR with only token forces to the north and west and with a Luffwaffe full of planes that hadn't been frittered away over English skies. Rarely do you have a moment where history pivots on one man, but in May 1940 it happened. 

I agree. I just disagree with you on how close he became prime minister. Because the british were aware of it too. In some way at least.

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The British "were aware of it" mostly because Churchill had been raving "like a madman" about Hitler for seven years non stop. His "wilderness years".  The British were no less stubborn and blind than their American cousins. 

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The Captain's gender is never specified and since it's unlikely that any women will be serving as seaman in most the nations navies it's most likely the game will start with you already as a Belle Captain and leave the background of the captain to your choice. Also Belles pick their own Captains and don't have to select from their crews and their's many ways a civilian can end up on a Navy ship.

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How could a sea-going Belle get a land-locked captain?

Well, Shanghai is not just a city in China...;)

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Leaving the country via ship for safer lands when attacked by a sub/morgana, Navy ship with a belle picks up survivors and regular Joe/Jane Schmoe suddenly finds themselves chosen. Or they went to visit a relative serving aboard a warship who's belle refuses to leave dock until she finds her Captain, said relative sneaks them aboard for a small tour then finds themselves chosen by the Belle. There's plenty of ways.

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11 minutes ago, Panay's Ghost said:

How could a sea-going Belle get a land-locked captain?

Well, Shanghai is not just a city in China...;)

I just got that! lol Good one!

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And let's not forget if there's a landlubber on board a ship being transported to a place (see our very own Captain John Falshaw who was gonna be part of the RAF ground crew in Malta)

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Or they could be the assigned commanding officer of the ship when it's forced to fight the Morgana!  (Shameless self promotion, HO!)  It seems to be a less popular idea in this crowd though...

 

Also, DYM, while I agree that Churchill was a phenomenal man, and debatably one of the most important that ever lived, no amount of anything happening would have allowed hitler to win the Russian front short of the US supporting his anti-communist efforts.  That's a discussion for another thread, though.

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14 hours ago, Käpt'n Korky said:

And now due to my obvious bias, my two cents on the weimar republic, currently under nazi management, also known as germany, the nazi reich, the third reich, the german reich or just "The Reich". (Reicht's jetzt? Ja, es reicht.)

Yeah, the logical choice is to sack poland. According to updates, the INPF forms on 28th of September. Germany literally sacks warzaw that day and meets the soviets halfway through poland. I can't possibly imagine how a single Belle captain changes the course of a campaign only slightly concerned by sea war. Also the Mists calm down the thread of the royal and french navy (probably busy on their own). And now we can talk peace. Or cease fire or not. Because: Land borders! Big juicy land borders. Denmark, Netherlands (special case, because of the Belles and neutral), Belgium, France..... Paris, here we come. French and british supply lines are on the seas, germans... not so much. The Kattegat has to be fought and kept open for nordish supplies and in the baltic sea: Our new "friend" soviet union and the Kriegsmarine have a lot of ships and a comparably small sea with their Walküren to patrol for Nixen. So yeah.... let's grab what's healthy and ripe and then peace... sure, why not.
That's the "logical" choice. It's nearly as boring as the "100% peaceful" choice (which is highly unlikely, but maybe possible). But what if you get out the nazi megalomania "fight them all"? Welcome to hard mode I guess? So yeah, I speculate germany is the only country with three predictable difficulty settings. 

Korky, just as it is fun for Pac and I to wax romantic about the US and Imperial Japan joining forces as brothers against the Morgana threat, I'm sure the siren call of a rational Third Reich is strong for you. Sadly, by 1939 I can't imagine a scenario where even the Morganas could loose Hitler's grip on absolute power in Germany. He was already Supreme Commander of the military with oaths made by all flag staff to him personally. History shows that his plans for lebensraum and the resultant implications for the USSR were not a matter of reason. If anything, to my mind the Morganas would just be seen as another reason for a continental power to move while the oceanic powers are distracted. I'm open to opposing argument but I think "extreme mode" is the German default without a stiff dose of Deus ex machina. 

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19 hours ago, Panay's Ghost said:

How could a sea-going Belle get a land-locked captain?

Well, Shanghai is not just a city in China...;)

But Shanghai is a coastal city. And yes, we do have the verb in german too. The activity is also rarely known outside harbour cities.

6 hours ago, DrYuriMom said:

Korky, just as it is fun for Pac and I to wax romantic about the US and Imperial Japan joining forces as brothers against the Morgana threat, I'm sure the siren call of a rational Third Reich is strong for you. Sadly, by 1939 I can't imagine a scenario where even the Morganas could loose Hitler's grip on absolute power in Germany. He was already Supreme Commander of the military with oaths made by all flag staff to him personally. History shows that his plans for lebensraum and the resultant implications for the USSR were not a matter of reason. If anything, to my mind the Morganas would just be seen as another reason for a continental power to move while the oceanic powers are distracted. I'm open to opposing argument but I think "extreme mode" is the German default without a stiff dose of Deus ex machina. 

Well I do hint "logical" is not the most likely option for germanys behaviour if you don't have any Deus ex machina, as you state correctly. But if the game let's you change the course of war they probably somehow will let you do it. Of course there's also the chance you have to abandon the Reich or fall with it into madness. But setting the game mechanics aside: Yes, Hitler would somehow try to use the Nixen for more Mayhem. As I stated the impact on the german war plans is much smaller than on french or british war plans. They won't be able to get their empires into the game as easily. Yeah, I'm looking at you ANZAC and friends. 
Also both the Lebensraum idea of Hitler* and his ambitions to roll up the Versailles treaty force him to attack east. The treaty of Brest-Litowsk and it's territorial gains have to be restored for both.

There is one possible threat to Hitlers power grip in the Nixen threat. If you see them as a planful power and not a force of nature, they will start and support plans to assasinate Hitler. And their resources could break Hitlers lucky charm he obviously had his entire life regarding those things. And winning against the Nixen without foreign aid will even boost his position as saviour of the fatherland from now a supernatural threat! He's the new promised messias for them! Because a lot of germans saw german victories as his personal victories. (And german defeats as the mistakes of his underlings.....and the atrocities often triggered the sentence: "If the Führer would know about it!") So, yeah thanks BCS for that......

The Kriegsmarine under Raeder and later Dönitz was probably THE most nazi loving branch of the whole regular german forces. They made sure the KM as a whole was seeping nazi ideals to the core. Both Raeder and Dönitz expressed satisfaction in succeding to do so. So if you think "Oh... being send by this lunatic Führer against such a supernatural threat tips off the KM into a partial mutiny." you will be disappointed. The depiction of a strong female Führer and/or nazi loving commander holding an admiral rank by Nel commanding the Scharnhorst** and the small old Reichsmarinecaptain Korky who is thrown into prison (not for the first time) for his lack of political correctness*** and only released after weeks and the realisation of having no other way to keep his Walkürendestroyer under nazi control is painfully accurate in both ways. 

*Lebensraum is a normal german word.... I can show you housing ads to prove it
**Given she's the only captain Scharnhorst accepts, so the nazis have to accept a female captain.
***The nazi version, natürlich

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I think it's been pretty clearly indicated that negotiation with the Morgana is not an option, so I don't think we need to worry about Morgana joining one of the world navies. 

A Hearts of Iron: Victory Belles total conversion mod would be pretty cool thinking about it. 

Regarding the Reich, I think Hitler really does come out on top of all this chaos, even if KM isn't particularly successful against the Morgana there's plenty of propaganda value in the new threat, and said threat is a threat to Lend Lease/Trans Atlantic shipping traffic that makes the Wolfpacks look like a knife next to a machine gun. This leaves his two major threats, Britain and Russia, bleeding. Badly. Barbarossa's success has far more significant odds, because the Red Army so desperately needed and relied on foreign supplies.*

*Always annoys me when people who claim the USSR won the war in Europe almost without help while pointing to their atrocious casualty statistics forgets that little detail. Their casualty statistics would have been even worse using their tactics as they stood without ungodly amounts of guns large and small, tanks, ammo, fuel, medical supplies, food, etc.  Amateurs talk tactics, professionals talk strategy, experts talk logistics. 

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2 hours ago, Käpt'n Korky said:

But Shanghai is a coastal city. And yes, we do have the verb in german too. The activity is also rarely known outside harbour cities.

Maybe so...but it also seems like every Belle bigger than destroyer has access to airplane technology one way (float-plane, flying boat) or another (a whole carrier air arm !).

And destroyers are small enough to get up major rivers - harbor cities don't have to be coastal, you know. ;)

If the US Army could set up a mission with the intent of saving Private Ryan, why not a mission set up by a Belle to kidnap acquire her captain? 

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2 hours ago, Panay's Ghost said:

Maybe so...but it also seems like every Belle bigger than destroyer has access to airplane technology one way (float-plane, flying boat) or another (a whole carrier air arm !).

And destroyers are small enough to get up major rivers - harbor cities don't have to be coastal, you know. ;)

If the US Army could set up a mission with the intent of saving Private Ryan, why not a mission set up by a Belle to kidnap acquire her captain? 

Another story Idea I'd love to write, or leave in my head stewing for months as I can't put words on a page.

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Here's a question. What if Iowa picks FDR as her captain when he's aboard her?

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4 hours ago, Panay's Ghost said:

Maybe so...but it also seems like every Belle bigger than destroyer has access to airplane technology one way (float-plane, flying boat) or another (a whole carrier air arm !).

And destroyers are small enough to get up major rivers - harbor cities don't have to be coastal, you know. ;)

If the US Army could set up a mission with the intent of saving Private Ryan, why not a mission set up by a Belle to kidnap acquire her captain? 

Someone needs to write that fic. 

"Sir we've been stuck in port for fucking ages and these aviation sorties leave us xxx all to do, especially without decent liberty. When the hell are we even moving on?"
"I told you, we can't go anywhere till she picks a captain and I..."
*SLAM* 
"Lieutenant Commander assemble the crew, I need volunteers."
*she spreads a blown up aerial recon photo on the table* 
"Agents from Naval Intelligence and the FBI will be joining us shortly. You will bring this man to me." 

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A fancy black government car slowly rolls up outside a humble family owned shop.  Two men in Navy uniforms step briskly out of the car and approach the storefront.  The young man inside is dutifully tending to the day's wares.  He kindly greets the Navy gentlemen as they enter.
"What can I do for you, Sirs?"

"We need you to come with us immediately."
The poor young man is befuddled.  "I'm sorry, have I done something wrong?"

"A belle has chosen you as her captain."  One of the Navy men explains simply.

"Wh... What?"  The young man stammers.

"She's been in port searching for a captain for two weeks, and has determined you to be the one.  For the sake of the US government and the world's oceans, you must come with us."

 

(I think I got this Twoheavens)

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I'm more curious if a Belle picks a world leader as it's captain. Again, imagine Iowa picking FDR and now he's not only the president but also a Belle captain

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Once again I'll point to Placentia Bay.  USS Augusta bore FDR and HMS Prince of Wales bore Winston Churchill. If Belles really were to choose such men, I think Iowa would be too late at the table. 

All that said, I personally think it would be such a waste if a Belle were to insist on such figures. These men would be far too distracted by BIG THINGS rather than fighting thier ships. I could see Winston especially being so torn between his tasks that the entire British Empire's government would move to sea with debilitating effects. 

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True. Still, I think both if able would take up the reins what with their history. FDR was assistant secretary of the navy and Churchill was the First Lord of the Admiraly

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3 hours ago, Wellington99 said:

I'm more curious if a Belle picks a world leader as it's captain. Again, imagine Iowa picking FDR and now he's not only the president but also a Belle captain

what in my mind would be curious if a belle picks a foreigner for her captain like for instance boise's waiting in a harbour when mahan drops off the brittish ambassador and his assistants. boise stares at one assistant in particular before saying that's my captain

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33 minutes ago, lazarusdw said:

what in my mind would be curious if a belle picks a foreigner for her captain like for instance boise's waiting in a harbour when mahan drops off the brittish ambassador and his assistants. boise stares at one assistant in particular before saying that's my captain

It's possible in VB, you can get ships from any nation.

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1 minute ago, RockyArby said:

It's possible in VB, you can get ships from any nation.

i know i was just wondering from a lore point of view

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On 8/19/2017 at 7:15 AM, Wellington99 said:

I'm more curious if a Belle picks a world leader as it's captain. Again, imagine Iowa picking FDR and now he's not only the president but also a Belle captain

 

On 8/19/2017 at 7:44 AM, DrYuriMom said:

Once again I'll point to Placentia Bay.  USS Augusta bore FDR and HMS Prince of Wales bore Winston Churchill. If Belles really were to choose such men, I think Iowa would be too late at the table. 

All that said, I personally think it would be such a waste if a Belle were to insist on such figures. These men would be far too distracted by BIG THINGS rather than fighting thier ships. I could see Winston especially being so torn between his tasks that the entire British Empire's government would move to sea with debilitating effects. 

If this scenario happened I think it would play out somewhat boring for that particular Belle. Most likely she would end up working with someone the President/Primeminister chose to be "2nd in command" of the ship. Also the Belle would likely end up assigned with guarding the home port. You have to remember that both London and Washington are real close to the ocean and could be prime targets for a possible Morgana attack.

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Spoiler

>thread

*facepalm*

>land war

*remembers which countries had all vital resources on mainland*

moar convoys to the Convoy god escorts <_<

 

Spoiler

5cB2ZfA.jpg

 

Spoiler

 

On 28 September, the League of Nations held a conference in Lisbon, which most of the world’s sea powers attended. That conference proposed a formalization and extension of the gentleman’s agreement, and subsequent conferences in Zurich in October and November brought an ugly, uncomfortable deal together: the International Naval Protection Force of 1939 was born.

Patterned after a similar force during the Spanish Civil War, the Protection Force would guarantee the Freedom of Navigation against the Morganas- leaving the human war at sea unaffected. Due to the Belles’ inability to be controlled, coupled with their overwhelming combat ability, Belle Captains were assigned to the Protection Force as their nation’s representatives. They would serve common humanity, or else be docked and marked as a non-combatant.

This meant in practice that the notoriously independent Belles might serve with any captain of their choice without concern over piracy or war prizes...at least for the duration of the conflict with the Morganas.

 

 

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Unrelated question: why do you post everything in a spoiler Lipstig? It's highly unorthodox. 

Even with Belles in the protection force, I could see some Belles still operating with the normal navy to provide Morgana cover. I mean crossing the Atlantic to send convoys to the U.K. Would require pretty much exclusively Belle ships. Germany wouldn't need to operate U-boats to hunt convoys

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