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Leon Cross

Useful Researches?

29 posts in this topic

Research is a ton of actions for a minor benefit after investing so much time into them.

 

Do you guys feel any of the skills stand out as being worth the investment?

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The Beastmasters is worth +1 Insight and Luck for your Familiar, which is just about the only research topic I might consider. The rest is not worth it.

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We don't know for sure how it will look in year 2 as all the lore we get per level in a research might be important then for the unlock of higher skill level.

It was already told by the Legate that the lore we get in year 1 will be important in year 2 for skill max increase and that without skill max increase our skill maximum is still limited to 10.

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Most of them give nine lores. Frankly, I think year 2 will be balanced around the assumption you did no research at all. You're likely to be a lot better off sinking that time into improving your skills or doing adventures than doing a token amount of research.

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I agree that that should be the case. Some people don't even unlock the research action in the entirety of Y1 (Like me, though I could do it in Y2 within a day or so)

 

Given that in Y1 research is a dead end thing that takes a lot of effort for minimal benefits, I don't think many would say it's worth it, save for those who plan to get ahead for Y2. Although there really is enough to do in Y1 that it still isn't a very high priority.

 

I can see, though, that an omni is going to be tied up with lots of research in Y2 if you want to stay competitive.

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I will definitely say that Research is fairly important in Y2, both for leveling Skills and for winning Activities. There are some definite benefits to being well-rounded.

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Haha, that's the one area I've got it better being an omni. Student of the Arc and Tail gives a research bonus so I get 15 :)

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I personal think it should be enough to have 3 Research skills at 10 and resulting have the main skill at 14 for year 2.

What I fear more is that all 4 SS might be important in year 2 as I neglected Decipher Handwriting for some of my chars.

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Metis;

 

'Enough' is subjective- what I'd say is that Research tends to make you better overall in that Skill. A little is good, a lot is better...but Research can't replace having the Skill itself, of course.

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Fully researching a 4-subskill parent skill will cost 50 turns worth of Research, or 1/10th of Y1's total free turns. Especially if the class skipping bug is going to be fixed, that'd be a very heavy investment.

 

Also, what about research that's not tied to a skill, like The Beastmasters? Will those lores have a purpose in Y2?

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Based on what little I've observed, my prediction is as follows:

 

Because Skills are still caped at 10 without bonuses, researches become important because it's one of the methods of raising skills. Because a lot of time in year 2 will be spent raising caps, and most of us will have most of the skills we care about already at cap, our optimization will be focused of getting the most cap raises for the skills we want to raise.

 

Having a very "strong" in terms of skill ranks character going in to year two will free up that character to focus most of their time not hitting adventures to raise skill caps instead of working on neglected skills.

 

Year 1 is kinda like getting your Bachelors in college. Mad rush to cram your brain with everything.

Year 2 is kinda like getting your Masters in college. Mad rush in pushing your specialties as far as you can.

Year 3 will likely be like getting your Doctorates in college. Ludicrous time pushing the boundaries of what is known and possible in your field(s).

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Correct. And that brings me to a question for the Legate. In Y1, fully researching all Dialectic subskills and the parent skill itself would consume 50 turns - 10 turns spend on Research 5 times. Using Weasel Words/Elegant Service for 4 turns to get Favor 10 with Professor Sido, using a 5th turn to cash in that 10 Favor for +1 Dialectic subskill max, and mass-spamming that until I get all Dialectic subskill maxes up to 20, would cost (4+1)×4×10=5×40=200 turns. Four times the investment (ingame time-wise, because [redacted] trying to manipulate the favor table that much without mods) of Researching Dialectic in Y1 will get me Dialectic 20, a cost of 2/5th's the game's free turns.

 

If my goal was to end Y2 with Dialectic 20 using the fewest turns spend on it during both years, with no regard for anything else, would it be most efficient to:

A: Get Dialectic 10 and Research 10+ in Y1, but don't dedicate any more time into research/expanding the skill maxes until Y2 proper.

B: Get Dialectic 10 and Research 10+ in Y1, invest 50 turns into Researching every Dialectic skill in Y1, and use those lores to speed up skill max increases in Y2.

C: Mass-cast Weasel Words and cash in favors until, after an investment of 200 turns, I get Dialectic skill max 20 in Y1.

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If I had to guess, I'd say there would be more efficent Research options in year 2, so IMO, likely best to wait.

 

Are there any even semi-efficent research options in year one, potential Sphinx giving you one aside? (I was wondering where the hell my singular research point came from.)

 

I think if I was to Mod anything, I'd toss a Research choice on Veniculum. You tap out Veniculum pretty quick so it couldn't be spammed all year, but it would give your character at least some grounding in their core subjects.

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Metis;

 

I am not sure the answer- I guess I would say that the maximums you raise in Y1 *may* turn out more valuable, since increasing the max is semi-random. Tough to answer directly, though.

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Tangently Related:

 

For my next play through, I'm making an excel sheet of all Level 11 (And specifically Level 10 if they give a +Max skill), and note which ones chain into several +Max skills.

 

Anyone already have one before I spend several hours on it?

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Metis;

 

I am not sure the answer- I guess I would say that the maximums you raise in Y1 *may* turn out more valuable, since increasing the max is semi-random. Tough to answer directly, though.

So all the time we spend in Y2 might or might not actually pay off. That is...not encouraging.

 

Tangently Related:

 

For my next play through, I'm making an excel sheet of all Level 11 (And specifically Level 10 if they give a +Max skill), and note which ones chain into several +Max skills.

 

Anyone already have one before I spend several hours on it?

I don't think you'd need to spend several hours on it, just check the parent Skills on the wiki and make notes. More often than not one skill max+ leads to more. Research, for instance, is easy to get to 11 because Decipher Handwriting chains the rest of them.

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I feel better with an excel sheet. Investing the time now for quick reference later. If something Chains to more than one, I'm specifically noting it on the first skill of the Chain, along with how many it chains into.

 

My "Bonus" goal for this time around is as many skill ranks as possible without save scumming for it.

 

Generic goals I always maintain: Perfect attendance, Maintain college merit lead, 1st honors in all classes, and 11+ in all Class parents + Gates.

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If you're getting Merit you're going to want to do some save scumming, because Merit prize 17-20 expand skill maxes, and aside from Negation, if you roll the right ones they can chain. Glamour especially chains really nicely, if you can get it to land on +1 Glamour Phemes Max.

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But I think its a good idea to actual fill all the actions / abilities and spells that permanent increase specific SS into a database or excel sheet to reduce the number of Sphinx calls as even the wikia is to time consuming in my opinion for that.

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Finished up the rough draft of the sheet.

 

Art: Music theory, if you get lucky, can pop a 7 chain if you get lucky and it hits Theory of Arithmetic. It can pop a 5 if it hits Properties of Arithmetic instead.

Natural Philosophy: Archeology pops a 6 chain down through history.

 

After that, there's a handful of 5s.

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