~ Suggestions & Improvement ~

[Albert]

Discovering new skills can be fun admittedly

[Svinik]

Not using the Athletics field to learn how to run, but using it to discover the concept of running so that the PC will be able to actively Train the skill. In his room, if you're so inclined.

 

EDIT: Oh, here's the quote.

 

I remembered the quote, my (somewhat ham-fisted) point was that there is often a difference between an amateur practicing what comes naturally, and what you can do with a little instruction. Running, admittedly, does come naturally to most - but there is more to running as an athlete than just getting out there and charging around until you are out of steam. The difference is, in my mind, similar to the difference to just going to the gym for the first time and "doing your thing", as opposed to having a few lessons with a PT first to learn what exercises suit your need, how to use some of the equipment properly, learn about proper pacing, how to avoid injuring yourself, appropriate step-up rates over the next few weeks, etc and then going it alone.

 

Though how the heck you can learn to run while in your room is beyond me, you got me there. Running is a bit of a reach frankly

 

 

Discovering new skills can be fun admittedly

 

And dangerous, don't forget the execution for illegal knowledge issue

[Metis]

Thing is, once you understand the concept of something you can learn anything in your room, at least up to Y1 material. Scouting? Just look outside the window for 5 hours. Mastery? Just wave your wand around randomly and somehow discover a Pheme. Dating? Of course, not like you need someone else for that. Wrestling? Hey, you got a goldfish as a Familiar for a reason, it can help you practice.

[isadorbg]

you are bit too harsh with the game. Sure it has many gamey mechanics but so does many games and if you can mention me one game that you've played (and also me) wich i am unable to give the same critics i would concede the point.

 

Personally my main complaint is about the uselessness of the classes and the inflation of new skill/abilities/action each patches wich apparently will be even worse in year 2 with ton of new ones.

[Albert]

Thing is, once you understand the concept of something you can learn anything in your room, at least up to Y1 material. Scouting? Just look outside the window for 5 hours. Mastery? Just wave your wand around randomly and somehow discover a Pheme. Dating? Of course, not like you need someone else for that. Wrestling? Hey, you got a goldfish as a Familiar for a reason, it can help you practice.

The Familiar wrestling part got me laughing, I know my parrot can get upset sometimes when I hug her and she thinks I ruffled some of her feathers

 

After/when I hug her she will take a look at her feathers, if she sees one single feather out of place she will put her eye next to it and the go "HEY!" at me and look anoyed! Then she would go crazy and start fixing her already mostly perfect feather shroud, she's a typical perfectionist and spends a lot of time on her feathers.

I also had one of those small lovedbirds once that barely seemed to care about her feathers at all, really poorly maintained feathers.

It's an individual thing I guess.

 

Those laws clearly needs some modification, persecuting and killing people for knowledge needs to stop. Even if the immoral unsupervised and unlicenced use of those skills might need to remain illegal.

Given that the laws have changed several times it shouldn't be impossible to "modify" them. If an Unban is possible then a minor correction to an unnessesarily harsh law should be doable.

There was this event where you could argue for making Gates studies legal and mon magic using people listening to the arguments could be swayed, by a good debates skill.

[Albert]

I could just see doing that book adventure.... On books that no longer are taught at the school for legal reasons! Think of the money you could make should the proscribed arts be unbanned. You just happen to have textbooks all ready for the school to conveniently use!

I don't think that would be a very good pocketmoney scheme in between year 1 and year 2. It might take a year or two before something like that happens.

[freespace2dotcom]

Yes. That would be more long term. As in 'not during school' long term.

[Albert]

Perhaps we need a new Research skill that allows us to look for crafting recipes, enchantments and spells and other things.

 

First you pich the "Omni-Research" ability, then you narrow down the area of research by parrent skill.

Then you narrow it down, to spells, tools/equipment, recipes, lore, skills.

Then either random or perhaps even more precise options. Perhaps your Research skill at that point could determine what will be found in your search and then you can pick an entry on that list to study. Your Library knowledge and filing skill should be able to provide you with a list. Might not be possible with the Y2 engine though?

 

Meaning you could learn everything you need to know about enchanted baking spoons, Bowl's etz. Just make your pick.

 

It must be in the library somewhere, if not there should be a reference that could make an adventure available.

[Svinik]

Thing is, once you understand the concept of something you can learn anything in your room, at least up to Y1 material. Scouting? Just look outside the window for 5 hours. Mastery? Just wave your wand around randomly and somehow discover a Pheme. Dating? Of course, not like you need someone else for that. Wrestling? Hey, you got a goldfish as a Familiar for a reason, it can help you practice.

 

I generally take the view that the place chosen is "where you start off" with "your room" being more of a "generic" location than anything else. As you note, the things that students get up to in their room is otherwise somewhat bizarre - while "in his room" my guy has climbed towers, fought dragons, ridden sleds around mountains, run a casino, explored the depths of the lake, hunted cultists with urchins, etc, etc

[Metis]

Fair point. Still, it's funny to imagine that an afternoon spend on Joie de Vivre in your room somehow ends up with you discovering Mastery Phemes. Why, yes, that has happened to me.

[isadorbg]

well everyone has its own interpretation of "Joie de vivre" altough can't say i am surpised seeing that your interest are not that far from Mastery.

[Albert]

Joie de vivre is described as walking off in a random direction and embracing whatever commes your way. So, I don't think you stay in your room. Your room might be your startoing point however, where you pickup your money or whatever other supplies you might want.

[freespace2dotcom]

Mm.. I actually dueled for the first time ever recently. With our resident Marchant. of all people. surprised it took so long? I didn't much care for the idea of dueling or wasting time getting the skill to do so, but Phillipe somehow got me at -10 and started pissing me off. I gleaned that I'd lose less turns getting to duel him, than resting his abuse. While I've been here long enough to have gleaned the important bits of dueling ever before I committed to it, I confess I only barely mopped the floor with him by spamming punch! (effective, if lacking the desired grace....)

 

Even knowing the basics, I got off to a bad start because I failed to realize the necessary three paces and salute were necessary to begin wailing on Phillipe. I realized my error after Phillipe paced once. but really "pace" seems to be a command to pace around, rather than to make the first of three steps back. So Phillipe got a free turn, and I wasted more trying to cast spells, but it seems he jinxed me while binding phemes to the pallete.

 

anyway, in my genious I was aiming to cast I think the syphon spell as simple practice when I thought.. "Hey, let me add a lightning pheme to that, too! zap him a bit." Well, I could neither cast syphon, (I assumed it was due to the extra lightning pheme I added) nor figure out how to clear my palette, so while I'm screwing around for this, Phillipe has prevented benefice and, closed to melee and he and his accursed spider go to work on me. I couldn't use the sword of kush, and although that's likely school/duel rules I'm still mad about it! So with no recourse I went and spammed punch. And defeated Phillipe with a mere 2 vitality to spare. (it was his ai roulette that saved me.)

 

That's my first experience. If even I got bamboozled a bit with dueling, I kind of shudder at what a person who just bought the game has not invested a couple of years on the forums/the game figuring it out would feel! Perhaps you can make Y2 a bit more intuitive?

 

(I know that Y2 will be better, but even so this is my 2 cents on Y1 dueling)

[Metis]

Reminds me of an SMT game played by someone who has no idea how to play an SMT game.

 

"Oh hey, buffing spells. Those are never useful in a JRPG."

"I am Matador!"

*20 seconds later*

"Holy crap why is my entire team dead!?"

 

"Instant death spells? Come on, those never work"

"My words shall erase your karma..."

*20 seconds later*

"Why is my entire team dead!?"

 

Sort of like that. If I ever ended up in a duel I'd probably spam Wrath of the Comet's Tail the day before the duel and hope that my opponent arrived either bleeding profusely already or not at all. Mind, I fully expect that to not work, to the point of the game cheating to make sure it doesn't. Same for Mastering your opponent into not showing up.

“Beyond that, there isn’t too much to know about Duels. When you win, you ensure that your opponent and their Clique can’t do anything hostile to you for a good long while; of course, the same goes for you if you lose. The winner gets to Triumph over the loser, who is sadly ridiculed by his friends and foes alike for the loss. Of course, either party may decide not to come , but those that chicken out like that are pretty much ridiculed no matter what. It’s been known to have a Professor step in and cancel a duel, but not too many students are willing to cash in their hard earned favor for something so simple.”

 

Who wants to bet that "either party" means "the player"?

[freespace2dotcom]

That actually sums up my first persona 4 playthrough, no joke.

 

(I gave Phillipe a single whip of the tail but elected not to waste more timeslots than were absolutely necessary.)

[Albert]

I think I could use swords in my duel, can't be 100% sure, but I think so.

 

One of the things about the Duel skills is that they help set the rules, normaly one gets to choose the location and one picks the form/rules. The dueling circle binds you to the rules set, you can break it if your Dueling circle skills is high enough and it's not against the rules. Also, knowing dueling/ forms and conduct will help you in this regard. The strength of the dueling Circle would be set by you and your seconds skill, usualy you and your familiars Dueling Circle skill unless you got another friend acting as your second.

 

Demitour allows you to get a head start.

The rest will come from your skills and that of your familiar. If you have given your familiar some basic schoolyard education then it will be able to punch your nemesis aswell. If you taught your familiar magic then ti will be able to draw phemes and cast spells and use abilities... It can even wrestle etz Though it will likely have lesser stats and skill that your character, but it's a worthy addition in any duel evere every point of damage or debuff you can throw at your enemy counts.

 

I trained my Familiar to be a terrifying oponent on the battlefield Since they arn't attacking my familair I don't have to worry about it getting hurt Still it's probably got a decent amount of HP's even if I can't see that stat, it's hidden.

 

That's a question for the Legate, will be getting more detailed information on the status of our familiar? I think Stress is shown but will it's heath show in year 2 or later years?

Having a trusted friend(your familiar) ready to fight for you seems like a nice feature But I guess we should be careful so our friend isn't hurt

Using the Hawk for battle seems less problematic since the description sugests it rather duels dragons one on one that sit around being bored. It might just be a happy to get a chance to scratch Philipe Marchant with his tallons when he gets a chance.

Other familiars might be less enthusiastic about fighting big bad wizards and dragons or snakes and spiders.

[Albert]

My last familiar, not nessesarily the most impressive.

But, it's a juggernaught of war! A great sidekick to have around.(At the end of year 1)

Name: Hawkes (My familiar)

Fitness: 4

Finesse: 4

Charm: 3

Strength: 3

Intelligence: 5

Insight: 3

Luck: 2

(Natural stats, no spells or lend attribute or anything, and no temporary skills)

 

Skills

Bond: 10

Endurance: 7

Arithmetic: 14

Brute Strength: 9

Competition: 6

Running: 6 (I assume that's flight speed attacks or something since Hawks don't run )

Wrestling: 2

Duel: 7

Enchant: 4

Glamour: 1

Incantation: 5

Negation: 9

Revision: 5

Hunting: 10 (It's a Hawk after all )

Tactics: 1

Schoolyard education: 5

Strategy: 1 (1 war)

Famous Battles: 1

Leadership: 1

Command: 1

Curage: 5

Willpower: 10

(Don't ask me why I taught it Arithmetics... Ok, I tought it's the basics of a proper education! Which increased intelligence. I also taught him enough social skills to pass the initial needs of the Familiar Adventure (Familiar adventure completed, with the Avian medal of honor) I didn't add those social utility skills to the lsit to show what a great warrior my familiar will be in Year 2

 

///

Master bully of the school/

Student: Philipe Marchant

Fitness: 7

Finesse: 2

Charm: 1

Strength: 5

Intelligence: 2

Insight: 1

Luck: 3

 

Skills

Endurance: 7

Revision: 8

Negation: 12

Glamour: 0

Astrology: 10

Arithmetic: 6

Incantation: 0

Concentration: 2

Duel: 0

Brute strength: 1

Wrestlin: 10

Competition: 10

 

Philipes greatest strength is his focus on Negation, he seems to love it. After that it's clearly the physical partial arts. I'm surprised his Brute strength is only "1" in my last playthrough, seems like he went for the more verbal insults and teasing approach. Still his Compete and wrestling skills are decent.

 

 

I put down a lot of time using Improved familiar handling Lending stats to the familiar to train skills also worked for speeding up the training once the bond was up. Lending Strength or any of the other stats also teaches my student 2 points of Familiar kinship each time so it's not a total waste. I don't know if I win the price for putting the most time into my familiar of any studnet so far But, I love my familiar Hopefully it will be able to do some more stuff in later years

A hawk should have a Tallon attack that uses it's hunting skill for attack rating or something..

[Albert]

Does the deathpenaly for Gates and Mastery magic include Hawks? Or Familiars?

 

I didn't teach it that, just in case it might cause problems, it also takes time to teach it every pillar, so I cut it for now... Maybe a Year 2 project?

 

Anyway, with my Dueling skills and that of my Familiar I would likely be able to enforce strict rules and pretty much anything I want, then break the dueling circle. The other Duelant would still be bound by the magic and rules of the circle, while I would be free to act as I please.

It's even a legal and valid dueling practice it seems.

Assuming we're fighting wizard our own age, old wizards might have worked on those skills for a while, but I'm sure there are those who hasn't put a lot of effort into it since it's so specific.

 

One reason Marchant might be somewhat low or behind is because I put him at odds with miss Coussins, who might have been bullying him a little bit. I was -1 to him and decided it was bet to give him something else to do She didn't like me that much either but now they hate each other more so they are both stressed out and beating each other blue and yellow.

[freespace2dotcom]

Does the death penaly for Gates and Mastery magic include Hawks? Or Familiars?

 

I didn't teach it that just in case it might cause problems, it also takes to to teach it every pillar, so I cut it for now... Maybe a Year 2 project?

 

Although slightly wrong thread for lore questions....

 

What about Ghost familiars? Ghost familiars that existed before the bans....?

[Albert]

Although slightly wrong thread for lore questions....

 

What about Ghost familiars? Ghost familiars that existed before the bans....?

I'm not sure how you kill a Ghost, arn't they technicaly dead already? Or maybe they arn't dead enough? It seems like you break them down temporarily at the very least. They might return.

[Legate of Mineta]

albert;

 

There is more detail in the Familiar screen, yes.

 

For Familiars, they and their wizards are subject to the penalty. Ghosts may or may not be banished, depending.

[Albert]

albert;

 

There is more detail in the Familiar screen, yes.

 

For Familiars, they and their wizards are subject to the penalty. Ghosts may or may not be banished, depending.

I guess I can't train my Familiar and get away with it by pointing fingers at someone who can't be punished.

[Albert]

If the wizard gets a boost to some skills if s/he trains their familiar and the ability to get refreshment of the spirit and other such things, what does their familiar get?

 

I guess a Hawk might get a longer life, some training in skills they wouldn't learn otherwise, or would be less likely to learn anyway.

 

Do they get anything else out of the bond other than possibly a longer life if the wizard lives a long life and an opportunity to possibly get some training. The Hawk I posted on the previous page had a really dedicated wizard friend so I guess he was a winner just due to care and attention. I assume it would be a happy relationship when both prosper and you go on adventures together, like when the hawk wanted to return lost property to a young lady and ended up foiling the plans of a kidnapper. Or the main adventure that involved getting settled and accepted by the other birds on campus.

But what about familiars that get largely ignored? What do they get out of it? If your familiar was your dog I guess it wouldn't be that concerned, it might just be happy to stick around it's friend.

What about more exotic ones like the faeries/pixie and other creatures that might be less inclined to follow without a bond that attracts them.

 

Anyway, even people who largely ignores their familiars might benefit from training them in school survival to teach them to punch your potential enemies. Don't think it takes much to teach them the most basic of attacks.

[Schwarzbart]

They be able to do magic trough the bound something most "animals" are unable to do without it.

[Albert]

They be able to do magic trough the bound something most "animals" are unable to do without it.

Magic without training? Or specialised bond magic? Or the ability to learn magic? Or do they gain their masters abilities?

I don't think it was ever explained very well.

The only magic I've seen my familiar use is what I trained it to use. Except for the bond abilities that seems to benefit the wizard.

In Oan's adventure my familiar had an ability to sense magic which seemed to originate from the bond somehow least that's what the adventure text indicated.

When I teach a familiar incantation or Negation it doesn't originat from the bond, or does it? If a familiar and wizard part ways, would the familiar then loose non-bond skills? Like hunting, scouting, scent detection, Observation, incantation? Socialskills?

I guess we might learn more about it in year 2.